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ojgsxr6
7/16/2007 10:01am,
When I studied Enshin (Low kicks + No face punches) we were taught to parry straight kicks. Now that I'm at a gym that competes in American kickboxing (no leg kicks + head punches), I was told not to parry straight kicks.

I know there aren't too many hard and fast rules when it comes to fighting, but what's the general consensus on parrying?

Zyph
7/16/2007 4:28pm,
I parry if I have a counter I want to use. For examplem: If you sweep a Teep to the outside and counter with a leg kick. You can see many simular answers on the getting past the side kick thread.

Most times I will admit that I just power through or "roll" with straight kicks.

Now about training. If you are at a gym that does not do leg kicks, find another one.

bobyclumsyninja
7/16/2007 4:45pm,
for real, do leg kicks...toughen your shins, and learn to punish the thighs of your opponent...there's no substitute...otherwise, it's barely kickboxing.

CanucKyokushin
7/16/2007 4:50pm,
Actually.I understand what he means a lot.It's tougher to push the straight kicks out of the way with gloves on isn't it ojgsxr6 ?

Zyph
7/16/2007 5:14pm,
Actually.I understand what he means a lot.It's tougher to push the straight kicks out of the way with gloves on isn't it ojgsxr6 ?

I have never really had a problem with it, but every one is different.

ojgsxr6
7/16/2007 5:27pm,
Now about training. If you are at a gym that does not do leg kicks, find another one.

I'm going to check out a couple this week.

As for whether it's easier or harder to parry with gloves, well it hurts less with gloves. The actual problem is that there is less that you can do after you parry the kick, and more of a threat if you get faked. In Enshin if a parry a kick I can easily kick the supporting leg or throw the guy, if I get faked I'm not going to popped in the head. In American kickboxing, if I parry the kick kick,I may be able to go over the top, but they button up pretty tight when they throw the kicks, so I feel like I'm limited in my counters. Now if I get faked then I can easily eat a punch in the head.

I was just wondering what most of the people here did, or thought.

Zyph
7/16/2007 5:34pm,
I'm going to check out a couple this week.

As for whether it's easier or harder to parry with gloves, well it hurts less with gloves. The actual problem is that there is less that you can do after you parry the kick, and more of a threat if you get faked. In Enshin if a parry a kick I can easily kick the supporting leg or throw the guy, if I get faked I'm not going to popped in the head. In American kickboxing, if I parry the kick kick,I may be able to go over the top, but they button up pretty tight when they throw the kicks, so I feel like I'm limited in my counters. Now if I get faked then I can easily eat a punch in the head.

I was just wondering what most of the people here did, or thought.

All of that is why leg kicks are so good. I tend to "scoop" the same with gloves as I do with out them. The brand may make a differance too. I like the gloves by Twins, but they are expensive as hell compared to everlast here in the states.

I hate American Kickboxing. I think it is a waste, and thank good the rules set is going the way of the dodo. This I hope will get peopel to train in more effective KB techniques.

ojgsxr6
7/16/2007 5:46pm,
Unfortunately, there are very few low kick kickboxing school on Long Island. The ones that are around are closer to the city, which is about an hour away on a good day, plus the schedules are horrible for me, which usually pit me against traffic, making it over an hour. I'm checking out a gym that some of the guys here go to, it's mainly a BJJ school, but the have a guy who teaches MT twice a week so I thought I'd check it out. My main whine fest can be found here:
Call the Wambulance (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56133)

bobyclumsyninja
7/16/2007 8:28pm,
I thought you might be kidding about American Kickboxing. Really no leg kicks? That's retarded, that's only one or two moves away from boxing.


:sign13: that's horrible....evacuate the school immediately...if you spar a kickboxer kickboxer, and not a "like student" the first good shot you take in the thigh or shin will be a nasty wakeup if you aren't training for it. The Thai boxing classes sound good...perfect for leg kicking experience.

I block the area, not the strike...in the thick of things, when guys are changing mid-course from move to move, and follow through isn't a certainty, it's too risky. I don't try to catch kicks, I shin check mostly, and counter kick, or punch into kicks....left body hook, right low round is my favorite. for guys who get too jumpy, or fancy...I'll bust that out...and both shots hurt too. No feints in that...all the body weight. If you guard the area, your set...if you try to catch the low round....I bring up the knee...wait a brief moment..and kick you in the jaw....dang-a-da-dang-a-da-dang.........guard the area. (if you lean over too much to do something fancy with the hook...the kick goes to the back/ribs on the right side...away from the hook.

Lately I'm becoming that guy who'll kick you in the legs, just to make you drop your hand, so I can turn the hip over at a steeper angle, and kick you in the jaw. Anything too fancy, or specialized can be exploited by someone like me, who gets by on sneaky.

I like guys who drop their hands to catch my sidekicks, then I can twitch the leg, and jab the nose when the arms come down....:laughing7
Better to block the area, and try using footwork to dodge...so if you do get clipped, it wont ruin your whole ****. :eusa_naug

patfromlogan
7/16/2007 8:45pm,
Mostly I think I block with stuff like both elbows a high roundhouse or try to jam (or move back) a teep with elbows and knees. But I really like parry/trap kicks like front/teep with circular block down inside and then come up on the outside and grab the knee with his foot caught against my shoulder, then flip city. Now that sounds real clear.

I kick little wrestlers a lot who like to parry me off balance or grab and sweep.

Torakaka
7/16/2007 10:09pm,
When I studied Enshin (Low kicks + No face punches) we were taught to parry straight kicks. Now that I'm at a gym that competes in American kickboxing (no leg kicks + head punches), I was told not to parry straight kicks.

I know there aren't too many hard and fast rules when it comes to fighting, but what's the general consensus on parrying?


I like to catch or parry them. It can open your opponent up for some nice counters.

bobyclumsyninja
7/16/2007 10:51pm,
My favorite tool is the heel bone somehow driven in to the belly/hip....so I try to make sure I don't eat any...I know what they do to people way tougher than me. Fancy stuff makes me vunerable on defense...but can work magic on attack. I just cover up the area, float with the punishment...while moving in and away from the blow...then it's my turn. Nobody tries to sidekick me much, I'm too long limbed...and punch hard...it's not worth the trade for most.

I wish blackie chan would post our sparring match at the last NY throwdown...or whoever filmed it....I landed a nice solid sidekick on him with his jumping in flailing bollocks.

PPlate
7/16/2007 11:43pm,
As for whether it's easier or harder to parry with gloves, well it hurts less with gloves. The actual problem is that there is less that you can do after you parry the kick, and more of a threat if you get faked. In Enshin if a parry a kick I can easily kick the supporting leg or throw the guy, if I get faked I'm not going to popped in the head. In American kickboxing, if I parry the kick kick,I may be able to go over the top, but they button up pretty tight when they throw the kicks, so I feel like I'm limited in my counters. Now if I get faked then I can easily eat a punch in the head.

I was just wondering what most of the people here did, or thought.
Gloves or no gloves doesn't matter, parry (and scoop if you can) the kick with your palm, not fingers. If you're not wearing gloves, be careful of fingers when you scoop.

If you're afraid of getting punched in the head when you get faked, setup a drill where your partner can throw real teeps or he can fake and throw a punch. If he fakes, and you drop your hand by reflex, slip the punch and counter with your own.

Another method which the Thais like to use is this. Instead of parrying when you see the kick coming, you move slightly back while keeping your hands up. Only when you feel the kick touching you do you use your front inner-forearm to scoop the kick and lift it up to off-balance him. In muay thai, typically if we get the other guy like this, we usually want to immediately push forwards and make him hop back to lose balance (he'll try to clinch you). Then you either kick his leg (you can't) or you lift up his leg or bounce him off the ropes and aim a knee at his head (preferble) or body before his hands hit the canvas.

No leg kicks = training under unrealistic rules = limited skillsets

I'd advice you to change schools too.


My favorite tool is the heel bone somehow driven in to the belly/hip....so I try to make sure I don't eat any...I know what they do to people way tougher than me. Fancy stuff makes me vunerable on defense...but can work magic on attack. I just cover up the area, float with the punishment...while moving in and away from the blow...then it's my turn. Nobody tries to sidekick me much, I'm too long limbed...and punch hard...it's not worth the trade for most.

I wish blackie chan would post our sparring match at the last NY throwdown...or whoever filmed it....I landed a nice solid sidekick on him with his jumping in flailing bollocks.
boby
What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?

C'mon, give some tips to your MT brudder.

Permalost
7/17/2007 1:49am,
I think the utility of parrying comes down to whether or not you can exploit the back quickly (due to ruleset or training). When sparring with friends and there's not really a ruleset, I like to parry to the outside and go for a standing RNC to knee in back position. You can also follow this with a double leg from behind, which is a nice way to dump someone forward (for sanshou you get your points, in self defense you're in a nice position to fieldgoal kick the guy in the stones)


What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that? Sometimes the kick gets caught on your shoulder, so you either trap it with your hands and reap/sweep the standing leg, or you hold it there and run them out of the ring for a takedown (most people can't hop backwards as fast as you can run forward.


boby
What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?

C'mon, give some tips to your MT brudder.
I also like to slap it to the side as I step back, then spinning back kick to the guts.

PPlate
7/18/2007 2:46am,
Sometimes the kick gets caught on your shoulder, so you either trap it with your hands and reap/sweep the standing leg, or you hold it there and run them out of the ring for a takedown (most people can't hop backwards as fast as you can run forward.

Codos, kinda risky trying to catch a high kick with your shoulder isn't it? Or do I not understand you correctly?

How exactly do you trap a high side kick with your hands?

Permalost
7/18/2007 3:33am,
Codos, kinda risky trying to catch a high kick with your shoulder isn't it? Or do I not understand you correctly?

How exactly do you trap a high side kick with your hands?

I don't exactly catch it with my shoulder. Sometimes, they just end up there because lots of people don't pull the kick back along the same line- they just drop it. Once its there, you "trap" it by sandwiching it on both sides with your gloves and forearmss.

So its mostly incidental. I don't like to try to catch high kicks because its kind of tricky and when a foot is coming for my head I prefer to cover and move.