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6/22/2007 5:09am,
Some time ago i was busy with an article about an organisation called:
Shuri ryu.

Pretty soon it became clear to me that it's an obvious larpfest,and since i did not get the chance to really check things out,i finally decided to make a thread about this in YMAS instead of MABS.
I'll try to make a chronological story.

It happened over a year ago,i was having a coffee in this studentcafe, and i saw this flyer,it said: Female karate! For women,by women!
On the picture i saw what i believed were 2 black belts performing the worst mae geri (forward kick) ever,no guard,pinky toe pointed forwards etc.
I grinned and let it go,until i met a girl who trained with them and got some inside info,as a martial arts practisioner i got a bit angry about the BS she was taught.

So i decided to check things out...

6/22/2007 5:12am,
Pretty soon i found some websites which had some questionable pictures like this one:

If you want to see for yourself here are the url's.http://www.geocities.com/wendi_123/


6/22/2007 5:15am,
So i found out that the head of the dutch branch was a woman called Wendi Dragonfire,i googled her name and found out that she was mentionned on some forum,the person who mentionned her turns out to be a young girl who is an instructor at the Nijmegen school.
Here is the text (she already posted in english so i didnt translate anything)

Not A Dude

Joined: Jun 29th, 2005
Last Online: 05:24 PM
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 268
Age: 27

My Sensei is also one of Grandmaster Trias' direct students and a co-student of Hanshi Robert Bowles,
who maintains the site mentioned above.
My sensei came to the Netherlands in 1982 to spread the style in Europe.
We have 5 dojos now: in Nijmegen (main dojo, where I train), Leiden, Utrecht and Amsterdam, and a dojo in Berlin, Germany.

Shuri is a soft contact style.
The Shuri the Dragonfire dojos practice is different from the American branch in that certain exercises have been replaced with others that are less competition-focused, a lot of things the Americans do,
we do not (mostly power training) because we want our dojos to be accessible for everyone, regardless of their physical condition (we have a 3rd dan in a wheelchair and a 2nd dan who is spastic, both women BTW),
most dojos are for women only (except the Nijmegen one, and We're trying to get some of the others, or at least some communal events mixed as well)
and most importantly, we've abandoned competition karate.
When I just started some of the women were competing, but that was only in the International Gay Games (my Sensei is a lesbian, I am not so I couldn't compete anyway), and then decided "It's not fair to only compete in the Gay Games, and since so many women here cant or won't compete in other competitions,
let's stop competing altogether."
We still practice sparring, but just for the heck of it.
The style is totally focused on selfdefence/surviving on the streets and uses many locks, chokes, throws, pressurepoints, close-in fighting techniques (elbows&knees instead of punches and kicks)
gauging, clawing and other mean tricks.

Not to offend anyone doing competition karate, but my Sensei told me the following once and I always use it to explain to students what I think the difference is between sports karate and 'selfdefence'
karate (martial sport versus martial art): When you take karate and eliminate any technique and any spot on the body that can really injure, incapacitate or even kill someone,
what you are left with is competition karate.
Yes, I know, hitting the head or groin can cause some serious damage, but at least in our system, competition targets are limited to the temples, chest, ribcage and groin and head&groin should be protected.
Free sparring also throws in the outsides of the thighs.

6/22/2007 5:24am,
You know I said that I wanted to join the Lesbian cult? I've changed my mind.

6/22/2007 5:31am,
So it seems that the instructor girl is under the impression her Sensei herself competed at the gay games,yes and no:she did compete but not in karate,the results are online:


I have some trouble posting the results in text but to go in short:she is only listed as a competitor in wheelchair dancing.

6/22/2007 5:41am,
Then i thought,this smells like BS and i googled some more,i came across this website: www.wendidragonfire.com

And i thought this was especially interesting:

HT Long Distance,some sort of energy therapy and all.
Please check the link because for some reason i can't post the copy and pasted text.

6/22/2007 5:47am,
After doing my homework i made a list of questions and emailed it to the Sensei,i asked the following questions:

Did you or your instructors ever compete in full contact competitions,and/or did you or they have any experiences in a real life violent situation?

Why didnt you compete in karate at the gay games instead of the wheelchair dancing?

How do you obtain a realistic approach without sparring or competition?

How realistic is it for someone in a wheelchair to defend him/herself?
(is that possible)

So i emailed it to her,and also i made contact with the girl who posted on the forum,which i mentioned in the above,i saved all the emails,and will copy and paste some jewels,i will paste them in the dutch language with translation,there are one or two belgium members here who speak dutch too so they can confirm and /or correct my translations.

6/22/2007 6:09am,
Ok,here is the text in dutch.
As extra info:The emailing started quite polite and friendly,but after this one where i told her i was a bit sceptical she sort off changed her attitude,i stayed polite though.
Here is the text in dutch:

Wat zijn de ervaringen van u en uw docenten binnen uw nederlandse
organisatie met betrekking tot geweldssituaties,heeft u bijv. docenten die
geregistreerde amateurvechters zijn,of misschien politie ambtenaren etc.

(translation:Did you or your instructors ever compete in full contact competitions,and/or did you or they have any experiences in a real life violent situation?)

Alle zv docente zijn geceerdteficeerd…en jullie?

(translation:All instructos/teachers are registered,what about you ?(you as in multiple people)

Ik was uitgenodigt om hier te komen juist omdat ik veel ervaring van alle kanten hebt...we merkte dat de mannen vecht ervaring hadden maar geen pyschichisch-emotioneel ervaring als docenten hadden en de vrouwen die toen hier bezig waren hadden juist de tegenovergestelde...dus ben ik uitgenodigt om te helpen met het basis ZV denten opleiding op te richten en een gevorderde opleiding te geven...allebei waren toe voor 2 jaar 1x per maand naast het eis dat mensen minsten 2x in de week ook vechtkunst training moest volgen en ze moesten ook al 2 jaar min. 2x per week ervaring al hebben.

(translation:i was invited to come here (Holland)because i have a lot of experience on many things,we noticed that the men had fighting experiences but that they lacked the psychic-emotional as teachers,and the women who were busy here had the opposite...so i got invited to set up a selfdefenseinstructor program and give advanced education aswell.
both (the courses for sd instructor) were for a period of 2 years,1 time a month a lesson and under the condition that the participant trained 2 times a week at least and had a minimum of 2 years experience.


In hoeverre denkt u realistische zelfverdediging te kunnen geven als mensen
in een rolstoel zitten of spastisch zijn (een 2e dan en een 3e dan als mijn
informatie klopt),of als er alleen met vrouwen onderling getrained word
(mannen zijn doorgaans fysiek iets sterker en zwaarder als

This is the question about the realism in selfdefense,if its realistic to only train with women and the wheelchair debacle.


Heel erg realisctisch…en jou? Wat voor ervaring heb jij? Ik ga vanuit dat de mensen die het het meest nodig hebben moeten ook ergens kunnen trainen...bovendien moeten ze het ook door kunnen geven...alle mensen die bij mij zwarteband verdient hebben kunnen allebei...en ze weten ook hoe ze gebruik kan maken van de vooroordelen en ontbreek aan kennis van potentiele aanvalers.

translation:i think its very realistic,and you? what kind of experiences do you have anyway?
I believe that the people who need SD the most should have a place and oppurtunity to train,and more important they must be able to teach,pass it on themselves,my blackbelts can do both.
And they know how to use advantages and the lack of knowledge of an attacker.

Het gaat niet om sparring...soparring is sport...wat heeft dat nou te maken met verdediging op een practisch niveau?

THen she continues with this jewel:its not about sparring,sparring is a sport,what has that got to do with learning self defense at a practical level?


En waarom heeft u niet geparticipeerd in de categorieen kata en/of martial
And why didnt you participate in the categories kata and/or Kumite (at the gay games)?


Kata of Kumite…martial Arts of Karate van de japaners wilde apat want in 1994 toen ze bij kung-fu, karate, tai kwon do en andere moisten mee doen hebbem ze niet genoeg medailles gewonnen…dus in A’dam hebben ze het weten te krijgen dat hun 4-5 japanse karate stijlen apart waren van de rest…dat is alleen in A’dam geweest want er is een officiele org. Die de wedstrijden van de vechtkunsten beheerdt.

kata or kumite, martial arts or karate of the japanese,wanted to go seperately,because in 1994 they had to join in with kungfu,karate,tae kown do and others,and they didnt win enough medals.
So in amsterdam (at the gay games then i assume,not really a clear answer this one) they pulled it off that they could have a seperatly competition with their 4-5 karate styles.
This was only in amsterdam because there is an international organisation that organises these competitions.

tkd panda
6/22/2007 7:02am,
by the last post it sounds like other martial arts were allowed to compete and this org got owned so instead of training harder to improve they went away to sulk.

thats what it looks like to me anyway!

6/22/2007 7:10am,

That's the stupidest load of **** I've ever seen, and I've started pics of disaster threads.

6/22/2007 7:14am,
I still have some emails with the instructor but its a **** load and will do it tomorrow,ive got more time then,its really more then i thought.
in the meantime here's two more pics of disaster...

In Holland we bycicle alot,dont mess with us damnit! its more then just transport!

Hold my hand and tickle me kata!

6/22/2007 7:24am,
Also at some point she said she came to Holland because we were in need of good teachers since we didnt have any of our own...i almost spit out my drink over the keyboard when i read that....
NO,its not like there's no good martial arts guys from here...*cough* Rutten,Hoost,Aerts,Bonjasky,Hipolyte,Schilt..*coug h*

Also my old judoteacher is an ex old ruleset european judochampion,and hitting the 60 still fitter then most guys my age,myself included.

Nah we have nothing where i come from..unbelievable.

tkd panda
6/22/2007 7:30am,
there must be some female BS members in holland who can go to on of their dojo's and provide us with some info such as the SD techniques sparring methods and rules plus the basic attitude of the place

6/22/2007 7:34am,
there arent any dutch female bs Members as far as i know.
There was this girl from their organisation,a 2nd dan which i invited to come train with me so i can see their techniques,i have acces to my school and am allowed to train with anyone i would like from my teacher.

Then she backed out by saying her Sensei said it could be dangerous since she didnt know me and she would be with a strange guy in a strange place.
I took a bit offence to that.
So then the instructor girl said i could come and train with them in Nijmegen,which is a bit far away and also on the same night i have my bjj class.
Public transport is really expensive here,so i asked her once again to come train with me at my school (train,not spar) since she is a student she gets a big reduction on trainfare,i even offered to pay some amount for her expenses,still she wouldnt,AFTER talking to her sensei.

Then she said i really should come train in Nijmegen again so i could actually learn something from her Sensei,i repliede i wouldnt for the reasons i stated above and hnoestly told her it was more likely her sensei could learn from me and not the other way around.
That pretty much pissed her off.

6/22/2007 7:40am,
there arent any dutch female bs Members as far as i know.There are, they're just hiding from you, you frothing-at-the-mouth, girl-chasing, inappropriate-touching, sex-crazed, freaky Dutch dude.

But srsly... Is class one "How do lesbian hairstyle?".

tkd panda
6/22/2007 7:42am,
Well then are there any of these mixed gender classes available