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SwitchBox
5/31/2007 8:58pm,
Or whatever anyone calls this strike...

It's like a mix between an uppercut, and a hook, thrown right in the middle for that arc. Now, I'm going to ask my instructor this same question, I'm just looking for suggestions.

I just started putting this strike in my overall "game" but, when I throw with my rear hand, (Orthodox) it doesn't seem to have any power, at all, when I'm at the heavy bag, it feels like it has the power of my jab. (Not too substantial) Any suggestions, should I just man up, and drill it till I get the power in it, or what?

OZZ
5/31/2007 9:39pm,
It should only be losing power insofar as it is traveling that extra bit of distance..otherwise, if your feet are planted firmly and you are getting your lower body into it with your knees slightly bent, it should be fine.
Maybe you just need to drill it more. That is one of my favorite punches. Nice short power ..

Hands
5/31/2007 11:00pm,
You may not have the proper alignment. If its the strike that I'm thinking of your elbow should be in front of your hip. If your elbow is outside the hip you will have trouble getting power. You can hurt your shoulder if you do it wrong so you may want to ask your instructor before pounding away on the bag.

Steve
5/31/2007 11:26pm,
Are you throwing it with the hip movement of a cross/upper cut (where you go up on the toes of the back foot as it's thrown with driving the hip into the strike) or are you still thinking in terms of the hook that's thrown off of the lead leg?

That might be your problem (thinking hook instead of upper cut when looking for power from the rear leg side), if it feels like a jab.

It's a great punch, you should keep working on it in any event.

saturnjunkie
6/01/2007 7:24am,
Jack Dempsey's book has this technique covered pretty well, IMO

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

Edit: The irony is in looking for the link, I found the original bullshido post, and it was by the OP! Me = pwnt?

:)

ysc87
6/01/2007 7:28pm,
hmm, when i throw that kind of punch, i drop a tiny bit forward, throw the punch, then time a short step forward with the lead foot as soon as you start throwing, kind of like when you throw a jab, or the "falling step" described in the link above.

basically, it's shifting weight to the front just as you're about to hit.

Schattenfaust
6/01/2007 7:50pm,
Yeah, I think your main problem is that you're doing it wrong. It's my personal favourite as far as punches go because it's so effective to the body. Try to throw it like an uppercut aimed at an upwards, 45 degree or so, angle, like throwing dirt over your shoulder with a shovel. Those punches are better thrown with your lead so they don't have to travel as far, which is the main source of your problem. As the punch travels, the power disperses. You have to get in close before this punch is viable.

AAAhmed46
6/01/2007 8:15pm,
I find this is really useful in karate, considering how most punches are body shots. I know your probably not talking in a karate context, but hey, maybe it will give you motive to work with it more.

Nathan McScary
6/01/2007 11:21pm,
I love this punch. Here's a few pointers, some of which you may already know, but I want to cover the major ground anyway.

- This punch is best used for infighting when in the middle of, or ending a combination. When using the heavy bag, set up for it with a combination like 'left jab, right shovel hook' or 'right cross, left front hook, right shovel hook'

- Shovel hooks are almost always thrown to the body.

- Do NOT move your elbow with this punch. Keep your elbow locked at the same acute angle through execution. This is for ecconomy of movement and so you don't overcommit. Plus, if you went too high and bent your elbow, well it would pretty much just be a sloppy uppercut anyway.

- Keep your elbow the same short distance (3-5 inches) from your side through execution. Your arm does not actually move independently of your body with this move

-Like you mentioned, it is similar to a hooked uppercut, so it is thrown diagonally at your target, rather than vertically (uppercut) or horizontally (hook).

- Because your elbow remains at the same angle through execution, you have to generate power with your upper lats and shoulder. When practicing on the heavy bag, turn into the bag when you punch and put your whole body into it.

It is unlikely that it will be as powerful as a cross or a rear hook, but it should be a helluva lot more powerful than a jab with practice. The main points are just keeping your arm stiff and unmoving at the same angle throughout and get a feel for turning your body diagonally upwards into your target with the punch.

Hope this helps.

SwitchBox
6/03/2007 11:46am,
Hey guys.
Thanks for the tips. It turns out that when I was throwing it, my elbow would kind of slip outside of my hip, totally fucking up my alignment, I wasn't connecting too well, because I was allowing too much distance on top of all that. I fixed it, and I'm throwing it pretty well now, but it's still kind of awkward, but I have the mechanics right now, so I'll just drill some more.

But thanks again for the tips, I'll try using them all to see if I can't make it less awkward when I throw it. And thanks for that link, Dempsey's pretty awesome. (Dempsey roll FTW.)

(Can you beleive my savate instructor taught me this cool punch? I bet you can't.)

Permalost
6/05/2007 12:57am,
In the beginning, I think its useful to exaggerate the mechanics. In the beginning I would really sink onto my right leg and dig in like I was slipping to the right, then unload.

SwitchBox
6/05/2007 10:55pm,
Yeah, I'll have to try that too, I'm still not having the desired power.

Sh0t
6/12/2007 3:35pm,
The shovel hook is my favorite non-big 5 technique.

The majority of my non-straights are actually hooks to the body

myrmecophilous
6/24/2007 1:47pm,
Jack Dempsey's book has this technique covered pretty well, IMO

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

Edit: The irony is in looking for the link, I found the original bullshido post, and it was by the OP! Me = pwnt?

:)

oh man I love the first few lines of that pdf:

What would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?

...

Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.

I think the latter will have to go in my signature.