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Ronald McDojo
9/19/2002 9:39am,
First let's compare the environment, rules, and outcome aspects of both.

Ring Fighters:
Training: Ring Fighting, Physical Conditioning, Grappling
Environment: Ring
Opponents: Predetermined, One
Rules: Varies
Time Limit: Yes
Weapons: None
Common Outcomes: KO, TKO, Submission, Time Out

Street Combatants:
Training: Overall self-defense, Physical Conditioning, Weapon Offense/Defense, multiple opponents
Environment: Random
Opponents: 1 or more, predetermined/random, multiple with weapons at times
Rules: None
Time Limit: None
Weapons: Varies at random or when available and neccesary by each side, i.e. guns, knives, bats, etc.
Common Outcomes: KO, Submission, Loss of Limb(s), Maim, Paralyzation, Death


I just wanted to clarify to some the difference between competition ring fighting and street self-defense. In street combat, there are no rules, excuses, time limits, etc.

I think competition ring fighting such as UFC and other NHB events are good and I enjoy them but I think some have the illusion of thinking that its close to street fights, which in my opinion is not. Weapons, biting, scratching, multiple opponents, dislocating limb locks. Just a few example of what makes street combats different from ring fighting, that determines the outcome of a fight.

Now I'm not saying that you can't be both. Some train for the ring and street defense which is great but there's a big difference between the two.

I don't believe fighters should be judge by their style(s), but their personal abilities, knowledge, skill and experience.

Opinions? Comments? Anything I missed? Please feel free to reply!

Michael
9/19/2002 2:02pm,
Yeah, we covered this 2 weeks ago

ArmLockSpecialist
9/19/2002 4:03pm,
"I think competition ring fighting such as UFC and other NHB events are good and I enjoy them but I think some have the illusion of thinking that its close to street fights, which in my opinion is not."

A training in your gym with your workout buddies also is not very close to a street fight.

DCM Fighter
9/19/2002 5:15pm,
Of course training in the gym of any kind isn't that close to a street fight. It's impossable to practice true 'street fighting' , unless you go out and pick fights, or just happen to attract violence,like a few people I know : ). You probably wouldn't want to train much if you fought that violently. But you can do as realistcic of drills as possable, spar, and learn a lot of different skill sets and train in a variety of common postions and places you might find youself, like sitting in your vehicle, or just standing around and have someone attack you with random attacks.

DCM Fighter
9/19/2002 5:24pm,
Also I disagree with the submission outcome in the comparison of the street fight senario. Everything else sounds good. It's possable someone might just give up once their arm, or whatever, is broke but I'm betting maybe not. They would still have 3 wokable limbs to try and rip your head off, plus drugs, like PCP, can completly numb any kind of pain. In that situation, it'd be wise to go for the eyes and throat. Take away his ability to breath and see very well. I've heard a story a few days ago about this biker guy on PCP who got into a bike accident and had his femer broke in half and was sticking out of his leg, who walked away from the accident, AND was carrying his 300 lbs. bike(whatever bikes weigh) on his shoulder, and didn't even feel it. Try your joint locks on a guy like that. Prepare for the worst but hope it never happens.

Michael
9/19/2002 5:41pm,
BTW my previous comments were me agreeing with everything you were saying.

aaronharmon
9/19/2002 8:35pm,
On the PCP thread, My brother (not a drug user) crashed his airplane. Broke his femur, hip, arm, ribs, ripped his urethra away from his blasser. He got up and walked back to meet his friends who were rushing to his aid. Plain old adrenalyn is pretty potent too, my brother is 6'1", 260lbs(?).

PeedeeShaolin
9/20/2002 12:15am,
Are you saying if your break someones arm hes going to fight back but if you punch him in the nose really hard he'll quit?


"Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker

unholyroller
9/20/2002 1:11am,
Hey Peedee. I think I've had it with the ADCC forum.... This is the first time I have really read what is going on here, and have to say, it looks like a lot to think about--something distinctly lacking at ADCC.

The Ring fighting scenario is fine; set piece action of fairly predictable type. But the street sees a wide spectrum of violence, from 1 on 1 "challenge matches" to sudden, but ritualistically started fights, to muggings, gang brawls, etc. Trying to quantify this...I don't know. Seems to me anything you train in is potentially useful, one main thing is keeping your head and applying things..

Doing damage to someone does not necessarily bring pain or even distraction. I have suffered such and felt nothing. So like you say, punch some guys in the nose and they won't even feel it. But disabling a limb is always good...

Folks always seem to think that someone who clearly doesn't feel pain, is someone on drugs. This is way wrong. The human body is extremely tough in extreme situations, and has a mechanism for shutting down pain.

DCM Fighter
9/20/2002 4:25am,
If you hit someone in the head continuisly in most situations bare fisted, or better yet the throat, it will most likely stop them. Breaking the nose might not stop someone, but I'm not going to just hit someone once,or even 3 times, and say, "gee why didn't that work." I'm gonna hit the fucker as many times, and as hard as I can until he stops his attack. But I'm not saying a broken arm won't stop a fight, but there's that possability that the guy you're fighting is on something, or has a really high pain tolerance, and dont forget about the adrinaline flowing. Yes the same can be said about strikes, but in that situation, I'd have to up the level of force if I couldn't get away, and go for his eyes and throat. If this is self defense, I'm going to get away the first chance I get. There's also legal considerations. If you break some guy's arm you could be sued big time in court if it wasn't justified in you breaking an arm, or leg.

ArmLockSpecialist
9/20/2002 3:54pm,
For those of you who think ring or cage experience doesn't help you in a street fight, how many have fought there? Maybe I'm the exception, but I've found a street "tough guy" or two are often easier to take on than trained, skilled, and conditioned MMA fighters.

As far as breaking the limb, first of all, you have to make the limb totally non-functional and this is done a bit differently than in "competition". The biker mentioned above who walked away carrying the bike still had a functional femur. Contrast this to the kickboxer who broke his tibia and fibula (a popular video clip going around the internet a few months ago). When he attempted to place his weight on the leg, it collapsed because the bone was completely broken and was functionally unable to support his weight. After making a limb non-functional, a person only has three useful limbs left. If he keeps coming, make another one non-functional. Also nothing wrong with going for eyes, nose and throats in between, before, and after breaking stuff.

Michael
9/21/2002 8:05pm,
Well I've fought in both places, street and ring, truthfully I would rather fight more than one guy as opposed to one on one. It is more fun. I never try to break anything in a street fight (done it twice), its hard to live with the consequences afterwards (I thought they would sue me).

9chambers
9/22/2002 3:34am,
Also every time you see that guy who can't walk right and lost his basketball scholarship and couldn't go to college or something .. you are going to feel like ****.

Greese
9/22/2002 4:07am,
Not if they attacked me. If you attack me, especially for no reason, and you are crippled in the process, I will send flowers and tell you that I wish you would have not been trying to assault me. If you assault someone, you get what you get.

DCM Fighter
9/22/2002 5:21pm,
Tell that to a guy when you get taken to court and sued and waste half a million in attourny fees and whatnot, and that's if you win in court. : D Just my bit of advice. If you're attacked always try to get out of the situation first. If you try to avoid it, but can't and you're forced to seriosuly harm someone then you can prove that in a court of law and probably come out of it ok. But if you just go all out and break a guy's arm or break someone's nose, you'll be held accountable and be in deep trouble. Remember this: Avoid, escape, resist. If you do that, in THAT order you should do ok in court. If you can't avoid a confrontation altogether, then try to get away, and only then after you've done everything in your power to avoid and/or escape, then defend yourself.

DCM Fighter
9/22/2002 5:30pm,
Here's a little story a judo guy told me about a year ago I thought I'd share too. He said that he went out to his car and saw someone trying to break into it. He confronted the guy and the thief came at him with a knife. He caught the arm and did an over the shoulder throw(I kinda wonder about that part, but possable)and got the guy in an armbar and broke his arm. He went to court and had to pay for the guy's medical bills. Because he had the guy controlled already, then broke his arm, the law says he used excessive force, and basically you become the attacker in that situation after the person's attack has been stopped and you have things under control.