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simardd
8/27/2003 11:56am,
Hi yall!
I was wondering if you guys have thoughts or knowledge of the real effectiveness of Judo. I have read about many styles but not that many posts are on/about JUDO.

B.T.W, here is a link of JUDO vs BOXING, guess who won ?
www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1964/mayjun64/boxing/boxingvsjudo.html

Any help is appreciated.

Skummer
8/27/2003 12:27pm,
You can order the video of the fight between Milo Savage (boxer) and Gene Lebell (judo) at Genelebell.com

I personally think that judo can be one of the best all around styles to take. It's easy to learn, easy to execute, and it works.

On the other hand, judo has been raped by the competition mindset. Many schools neglect the ground fighting and most ignore the striking altogether. The competition rules applied during sparring are often unrealistic and just a hinderance. That is, rules concerning proper grips, time spent on the ground, etc..

Judo will definitely toughen your body if you practice it properly. Being tossed about 30 or 40 times in an hour really teaches you how to absorb impact. Plus the full speed/power sparring is an excellent training tool.



- Skummer -

If you think you can speak about Tao, it is clear you don't know what you're talking about.
-Lao Tzu

mikus
8/27/2003 12:42pm,
That is a cool video. It doesn't show the entire fight (I think most of the actual fight they were just kinda dancing around, as both knew that if the other got the slightest advantage that they were dead meat), though. It's cool for historical value, and also for the hilarious song at the beginning about how great Gene Lebell is. It's about 10 minutes long.

And I'm kinda mixed on the ground rules. I LIKE that it focuses on speed. I guess I like practicing sometimes with unlimited groundwork and sometimes with just moving quick after the throw and if you can't sink anything then standup. The only problem is that at my judo club the mats are HARD (made of yellowpages and sawdust with a tarp over it) and going really fast into groundwork after a big throw is pretty dangerous.

On the upside, my club is pretty damn informal as far as dojos go, and it's mainly up to the two people doing randori as to how hard they want to go. We always allow body scissors (not as hard as we can of course) and cross faces and whatnot, even though those aren't allowed in tournaments.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

HAPKO3
8/27/2003 12:43pm,
Grappling beats pure striking.

What else is new?

Now, if Savage had about a year of grappling training, he would pound Lebell into the floor.

Beneath Contempt
8/27/2003 4:04pm,
So we're now saying that one year's grappling will be enough to beat Gene LeBell, just because you're a boxer. Come on.

HAPKO3
8/27/2003 4:09pm,
Yep.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

deus ex machina
8/27/2003 4:16pm,
Hrm, how much does a striker need to know to kill a judo guy?

Let's see.

Stay out of the clinch. And if you're in the clinch, how to get out of it.

And.

Sprawl.

Wow, that's tough.

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

"Deus practices the love that dare not speak its name." - Samuel Browning

mikus
8/27/2003 6:50pm,
Say wha? Lebell is god. He'd kick helio's ass, that's for sure. And actually, I don't think that Lebell's boxing skill is *too* shabby himself, as far as I've heard. And his takedowns aren't ones that sprawls are good against (though I guess thats where the "stay out of the clinch" comes in).

But that's all a bit too simplistic. You could just easily say that the grappler needs to learn how to stay in the clinch/ground.

Lebell had no real problems whatsoever defeating that guy. Had there been no time limit, it would've been over much sooner.

Not to mention the fact that I think that the guy DID have roughly a year or so to train grappling/judo. Milo Savage clearly starts trying footsweeps on Gene at one point in the clinch.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

Middlemoor
8/27/2003 9:01pm,
It's all very well saying that a striker should avoid the clinch, but that's like advising a racer not to crash by staying off the track. You'd have to be a good boxer, in this instance, to keep away from somebody within a ring.

Training to escape from clinch range may be more valuble, or concentrate on clinch range boxing. You're going to have to outclass your opponent no matter what your competition involves.

Also, sprawling might not help against a judoka, especially as it is a perfect stance from which the judoka can excecute a variety of techniques. If you're going to sprawl, don't just do it all the time or you'll open yourself up to attack.

stompinghobbit
8/27/2003 10:20pm,
My only experience with judo was when I was about 17 and my friend Masashi kicked my butt. Course I only had a little bit of wrestling experience with my dad who use dot wrestle in college, and no training. Looking at it now I'd probably take it along with something else. Unfortunately they don't have it at the school I'm gonna start going to.

SLJ
8/28/2003 2:53am,
Middlemoor is correct.

The striker has to try and hit a moving target, that doesn't want to be hit, and wants to be up close.

Good example of Judo against striking is Remco Pardol (Sp) Vs. Thai boxer in UFC2.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I have the power!" - He-man. The most powerful man in the Universe.
(Short, sharp and to the point. Redefining the quotations of heros.)

Justme
8/28/2003 7:57am,
Didn't Lebell choke out Seagul too?

SLJ
8/28/2003 8:01am,
Yes, Ownage from Judo Gene.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I have the power!" - He-man. The most powerful man in the Universe.
(Short, sharp and to the point. Redefining the quotations of heros.)

Uke
8/28/2003 8:21am,
Lebell is an old fart,anyone with boxing knowledge and grappling skills could take him.
He was king of his domain when competition was scarce.
Nowadays with MMA,try to imagine him going against Coleman,Gracie or Abott.
He toke Seagal by surprise.
You never take a challenge too seriously when coming from an old guy.
Seagal could have done him with his signature
irimi nage.

PizDoff
8/28/2003 8:44am,
what's a "karate kick"?

:)

--
Hard Work, Patience, Dedication
Style is irrelevant. Train yourself to be a complete fighter.

Fighting Multiples - http://bullshido.com/article_read.asp?id=162

http://www.gifs.net/animate/smoking8.gif

mikus
8/28/2003 2:19pm,
So could gene beat himself? He had both boxing knowledge and grappling skills. No, that has to be a lie. Anyone who says they cross trained before 1994 is a liar.

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.