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ggboxer
4/25/2007 1:32pm,
I've heard the Horse Stance get knocked a bit for being too immobile/impractical for realistic fight situations. Obviously it has its limitations, But it can provide great stability and is actually quite versatile during in-fighting situations. I realize its just not really incorporated into Boxing or Muay Thai footwork , but was wondering if anyone had any positive feedback about it. Non-traditional sports styles are welcome to comment.

Ke?poFist
4/25/2007 1:34pm,
Horse stance is good for keeping a base in grappling when postured outside the open guard. In stand-up striking terms it's useless.

Teh El Macho
4/25/2007 1:37pm,
I've heard the Horse Stance get knocked a bit for being too immobile/impractical for realistic fight situations. Obviously it has its limitations, But it can provide great stability and is actually quite versatile during in-fighting situations. I realize its just not really incorporated into Boxing or Muay Thai footwork , but was wondering if anyone had any positive feedback about it. Non-traditional sports styles are welcome to comment.Explain.

ignatzami
4/25/2007 1:39pm,
GG, darling. The Horse stance is a training tool, not a combative stance. It may have uses in combat, but I'm sure you could find uses for anything in combat. But there are vastly better ways to go about it. Not to mention it is TERRIBLE for your hips and knees.

As for in-fighting a low immobile stance is not where you want to be, a higher, athletic, mobile posture that allows you to quickly move and adapt is infinitely superior. This discussion can now be considered closed.

Horse stance sucks.

Ke?poFist
4/25/2007 1:52pm,
Um....did you all miss my response? I understand GG is trolling for responses, and that he is referring to standup useages, but the stance itself does come in handy when trying to keep you posture in bull-fighting range.

From Bell2Bell
4/25/2007 1:54pm,
In the years I spent on kung fu no one ever suggested that it was a good idea to fight from horse stance. It's used for conditioning, and it's also used to illustrate (in an exagerated way) how to use your hips and legs to generate power, not as something to use in a fight.

cyrijl
4/25/2007 1:55pm,
don't feed the troll

From Bell2Bell
4/25/2007 1:57pm,
Um....did you all miss my response? I understand GG is trolling for responses, and that he is referring to standup useages, but the stance itself does come in handy when trying to keep you posture in bull-fighting range.


Honestly a good low horse stance would be very awkward to grapple from. I know a lot of styles have high comfortable horse stances but the style of kung fu I practiced put a lot of emphasis on traditional stances and my understanding is that it's supposed to be just about as low as you can make it.

Ke?poFist
4/25/2007 2:06pm,
Honestly a good low horse stance would be very awkward to grapple from. I know a lot of styles have high comfortable horse stances but the style of kung fu I practiced put a lot of emphasis on traditional stances and my understanding is that it's supposed to be just about as low as you can make it.

I use it all the time when outside the open guard. Posturing yourself angled off 45degrees or so to prevent them from scooping your ankles and reversing, allows you to work for a solid pass to side control. Also very useful for standing guard passes.

http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-2.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-3.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-4.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-5.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-6.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-7.jpg

From Bell2Bell
4/25/2007 2:15pm,
I use it all the time when outside the open guard. Posturing yourself angled off 45degrees or so to prevent them from scooping your ankles and reversing, allows you to work for a solid pass to side control. Also very useful for standing guard passes.


Your pictures just explained why we're disagreeing. What you're posting is a very high horse stance... sort of. My experience was with a school that was obsessed with low stances though, so that guy would have to bend his knees and sink much lower for it to be what we were doing. This is a nit-picky sort of complaint though; the only thing I ever use horse stance for now is as a warm up and I only do that when I get bored of the other excercises I use.

Bluto Blutarsky
4/25/2007 2:19pm,
the horse stance has a purpose as it's name indicates.

To simulate fighting from horseback.

Unless you are training to use your techniques mounted, I fail to see any use for it.

Personally I find it only usefull in two directions, the sides, unless you are letting your opponent attack you from the side (which has other obvious drawbacks even a blind deaf and dumb person cab see).

maybe it has other training applications that aren't applicable in fighting like stregthening legs by building muscles from standing in it. That I can't comment on because I admit we don't train it.

personally I fail to see how it can help defend against a shoot, and actually imagine it would make you more susceptible to a takedown as your weight and legs are situated to give the greatest resistance not to the front and back, but to the sides.

unless your opponent is shooting at you from the side- I don't see how weakening your position, and mobility to sprawl can benefit you at all unless the mafia is holding your children ransom if you don't throw the fight.

Ronin.74
4/25/2007 2:42pm,
I use it all the time when outside the open guard. Posturing yourself angled off 45degrees or so to prevent them from scooping your ankles and reversing, allows you to work for a solid pass to side control. Also very useful for standing guard passes.

http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-2.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-3.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-4.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-5.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-6.jpg
http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Andreh-Anderson/Margarida-Guard-Pass-7.jpg


WTF are you doing!? Now you're going to have a bunch of Kung Fu people claiming to have found the secret guard breaking techniques in their forms.

:spanky:

Ke?poFist
4/25/2007 2:53pm,
lol Ronin. They already do that. But in all honesty the 4th picture I posted from the top is a position I end up in a lot. Not always gripping up at the gi (because I train no-gi often), but still the position is quite necessary to keep your base.

Bell2Bell, I see what you mean, and yeah sinking into an unecessariy low low stance in the example I used isn't exactly doing yourself any favors. I often change my posture in that stance moment to moment as my opponent fights to off-balance me, or pull me back into guard, so sometimes I'm riding high, sometimes low, sometimes my weight is seated foward onto one leg to press their leg in to pass, sometimes not. But I found it interesting when Matt was teaching us the range in general, and he seated into a perfect horse stance (perhaps not low with butt at knee level but still deep and rooted), and kept his opponents open guard stacked and held open.

S0meguy
4/26/2007 10:27pm,
KempoFist:

Seconded. I wrestled varsity in Highschool, and a really low square stance is a lot like a horse stance. It's not a bad defensive posture in a clench for that short instant when you are actively fighting a particular throw. I take Judo know in addition to a couple of striking deals, and I find that getting a low square stance when you're stuck in gaurd gives you a good place to work from (but that's just me, I'm sure everyone is different).

I can't imagine trying to... ya know, like, do anything productive from a horse stance in any situation prior to the clench, though.

Ke?poFist
4/26/2007 10:37pm,
I also can't imagine how sitting in a horse stance for any reason other than conditioning would be useful either. Throwing chambered punches from there only builds bad habits, and the idea that it "exaggerates" the concept of using your hips is bunk. I can't think of a more limiting way to stand to NOT use your hips properly than a horse stance.

Train how you fight. Use the stance when you need it, stand up and keep your hands up, elbows in, and chin tucked when striking.

KhanomTom
4/27/2007 6:18am,
I only used horse stance for leg strengthening. Using it in an actual fight situation? I suggest you invest in a firearm.