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View Full Version : Legitimate Criticism of Bullshido (the site/community, not the phenomenon)



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Phrost
3/03/2007 5:15pm,
In an effort to prevent the discussion (mainly in this and other serious sub-sections) from becoming insulated, sheltered, and support group-like, I'd like to see what opinions are out there about how we're doing things (beyond stupid crap in YMAS and the other "entertainment" sub-forums), especially criticism.

Sites like this attract a lot of like-minded people, which is great for getting things done, but sometimes a lack of outside perspectives can cause key people to be oblivious to areas where things need to be improved.

It's just like sparring; if you only spar with one or two people all the time, you're not going to improve as fast and close as many holes in your game as if you spar with people from different schools, compete, and take on all comers.

I'm concerned that because we are pretty much the 800lb gorilla in the room now, that the only people who are trying to point out the "holes in our game" are those who are unproductively antagonistic, have personal grudges, or are just incapable of passionate but coherent criticism.

So this is an invitation to all the lurkers, our detractors, anyone who has a question/issue/concern about things that I, the staff, or the senior members could answer or address.

A few ground rules to keep this on topic and productive for everyone:

1. Keep personal issues out of this. This includes bullshit involving the rep function, etc.
2. Remember that The forums are not the primary function/feature of the site. They're just the medium through which we can interact.
3. Don't try to be funny, nobody cares.

Any concept or ideology that needs to be sheltered from criticism isn't worth being espoused.

aaaargh
3/03/2007 5:40pm,
OK, here goes- Too much great information is buried in 1000-post threads. We need more articles and/or summaries.

Matt Stone
3/03/2007 5:58pm,
This is an interesting thread, especially so since I had a discussion today with someone who asked the question "who are they to judge?"

I think the one area that may need toning down occasionally is the self-righteousness that some folks end up displaying. Granted, there are some arts that have a good, strong track record of successful demonstrations, e.g. BJJ, Muay Thai, etc. However, in the hunt for those who lay claim to powers of flight, invisibility, and NTKOs, some folks who may well have valid skill sets are thrown into the fire for good measure...

The one thing I think that sets Bullshido apart from every other website is that when a full blown investigation is conducted, and results displayed, it's almost a clinical event. There is little personal opinion to color the findings. The final article sounds more like the coroner's report than it does a condemnation of wrongdoing.

I think that's how a lot of other things should be. The ongoing battle with Rudy Abel is how things ought not to be... That (and I'm not sure what forum its in) presents this site in one of the worst views possible, and potentially serves (I think) to substantiate the anti-Bullshido ammo that the only people over here are name-calling, immature, ****-slingers.

A clinical, facts-only approach, as devoid of inflammatory, juvenile mud-slinging as possible. If someone claims to do "X" superhuman feat, call them out - don't call them names.

Other than that, I think this place is pretty cool... And that's coming from a dyed in the wool Traditionalist who does forms, qigong, meditation and one-step sparring...

:5thanks:

CanucKyokushin
3/03/2007 6:17pm,
I think that there's very little if anything that is wrong with the site itself.Except perhaps the success is a major drawback to the site.

I like to see a flamewar a much as the next guy.But not when things get out of control and there's nothing constructive gets met.What I mean is that I just hate it when I see 20 noob members basically asking the same questions that the more knowledgeable members are already asking.

Maybe a limit can be place on how many people can post in MABS threads to prevent this.I don't know if this is possible.But look into it.

Constent shitting of things up with short "LOL's" and small picture captions that add nothing to the discussion overall.I'm probably guilty of this now and then but when most people are doing it....Gehs.

Another thing I become exasperated when when trolls are found out but nothing is done to ban said person.

We new KFOY was Rudy but why we let it drag so long is beyond me.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:20pm,
OK, here goes- Too much great information is buried in 1000-post threads. We need more articles and/or summaries.

We created this (http://www.bullshido.org) in part, to rectify that problem. Just need to get people used to using it.

Axelton
3/03/2007 6:20pm,
Another thing I become exasperated when when trolls are found out but nothing is done to ban said person.


Thats my only real complaint.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:24pm,
The one thing I think that sets Bullshido apart from every other website is that when a full blown investigation is conducted, and results displayed, it's almost a clinical event. There is little personal opinion to color the findings. The final article sounds more like the coroner's report than it does a condemnation of wrongdoing.

I think that's how a lot of other things should be. The ongoing battle with Rudy Abel is how things ought not to be... That (and I'm not sure what forum its in) presents this site in one of the worst views possible, and potentially serves (I think) to substantiate the anti-Bullshido ammo that the only people over here are name-calling, immature, ****-slingers.

A clinical, facts-only approach, as devoid of inflammatory, juvenile mud-slinging as possible. If someone claims to do "X" superhuman feat, call them out - don't call them names.

Other than that, I think this place is pretty cool... And that's coming from a dyed in the wool Traditionalist who does forms, qigong, meditation and one-step sparring...

:5thanks:

Well that's another reason why we've got both Bullshido.com (investigations and consumer protection) and Bullshido.org (bare-bones-info/facts without any significant PoV).

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:28pm,
I think that there's very little if anything that is wrong with the site itself.Except perhaps the success is a major drawback to the site.

I like to see a flamewar a much as the next guy.But not when things get out of control and there's nothing constructive gets met.What I mean is that I just hate it when I see 20 noob members basically asking the same questions that the more knowledgeable members are already asking.

Maybe a limit can be place on how many people can post in MABS threads to prevent this.I don't know if this is possible.But look into it.

Constent shitting of things up with short "LOL's" and small picture captions that add nothing to the discussion overall.I'm probably guilty of this now and then but when most people are doing it....Gehs.

Another thing I become exasperated when when trolls are found out but nothing is done to ban said person.

We new KFOY was Rudy but why we let it drag so long is beyond me.

Well we knew it was Rudy too, and I invited him back to participate in the CMA forums. This was a mistake because I should have known he's not one to contribute if anyone so much as disagrees with him in the slightest bit.

I just never got around to merging his new and old accounts.

The LOLs and such are being forcibly removed from MABS and people are getting administrative boots in their asses for trying to derail or **** up threads in this sub forum.

YMAS, however, is a much more casual posting environment, and as long as you're not spamming or some other fuckery, we're generally going to be ok with whatever.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:30pm,
Thats my only real complaint.

Well this you have to put in perspective. Previously, we never banned ANYONE, especially when the site first started out. If there's a chance someone can contribute to the discusison in one way or another, we'd rather not ban anyone.

Cullion
3/03/2007 6:34pm,
Repetition is Bullshido's main enemy. Dunno how to fix it.

Sometimes it's some disgruntled non-sparrer coming in to rehash the why-their-style-shouldn't-be-mocked arguments.

Sometimes it's a recent convert to BJJ (often who's come from some flakey **** like the Bujinkan) going apeshit and preaching the gospel according to Thornton about some style they've never practiced using almost word for word arguments we've heard before.

Dunno what to do about it, but repetition is Bullshido's greatest enemy now it has so many members. It's not necessarily a detraction from the mission, but it is fucking boring to read.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:36pm,
Well blatant style bashing is limited to YMAS for the most part now. And YMAS intentionally has a high signal-to-noise ratio. It's the site's "Locker Room".

Now, things will be lampooned here, because Bullshido.NET is primarily a comedy and entertainment website. We just happen to host the forums here too for technical reasons.

So "lol, krotty" jokes are par for the course here because it's all about knocking everyone down a few pegs and letting people laugh at themselves. If they can't take a joke, **** 'em.

But none of that kind of posting should be in the MABS forum. It's for legitimate and well reasoned, not blanket, criticism.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:41pm,
Repetition is Bullshido's main enemy. Dunno how to fix it.

Sometimes it's some disgruntled non-sparrer coming in to rehash the why-their-style-shouldn't-be-mocked arguments.

Sometimes it's a recent convert to BJJ (often who's come from some flakey **** like the Bujinkan) going apeshit and preaching the gospel according to Thornton about some style they've never practiced using almost word for word arguments we've heard before.

Dunno what to do about it, but repetition is Bullshido's greatest enemy now it has so many members. It's not necessarily a detraction from the mission, but it is fucking boring to read.

Well the best way to deal with it is to utilize Bullshido.ORG in the coming months and list everything we've learned over the past 5 years so as to avoid rehashing old topics unless there's new information.

But the other way we've dealt with it is to let casual posting, ranting, and other sorts of threads have a home in YMAS while the folks who actually want to keep moving forward work together in MABS.

Phrost
3/03/2007 6:44pm,
So to reiterate:

Bullshido.com: Consumer Information and Investigation results.

Bullshido.net: Humor, member reviews, videos, and discussion.

Bullshido.org: The bs-free encyclopedia of the Martial Arts and knowledgebase for everything we've learned over the years.

HonkyTonkMan
3/03/2007 6:44pm,
I have been lurking on that thread on the new site bashing Bullshido. For the most part its just people who are as closed minded as they claim Bullshido is.

However, they do raise some interesting points.

1. Some people on Bullshido seem to be protected from retributon for their trolling ways against the noobs, and any one else, not in the "loop". This perpetuates the myth that Bullshido is an eliteist group who goes after other non-like minded Martial Arts Practitioners.

2. Some arts are epoused above all others no matter who the practitioner in question is. If they do "X" MA then the are still slammed. This also ads to the myth, of Bullshido being biased.

3. Many of the Martial Arts that are regularly bashed (TKD/Aikido/KF, etc.) are also sponsors/advertisers on the site. Why is that? How can we have TKD sucks month and then have three ads at the top pf the page for TKD schools. ( I understand that these MA's are bashed, not for their "art" but for their bullshit McDojo ways and unrealistic training, but its hard for noobs to understand this)

While much of this doesnt transpire on MABS, the overall abuse gives people the impression that MABS is just the same as the other forums.

We must all admit that some of the staff/mods are guilty of this. I am guilty of this myself, but I dont have staff/moderator next to my name. Again, it adds to the myth/ appearance of truth of the accusations against Bullshido.

Lv1Sierpinski
3/03/2007 6:46pm,
I think if people really want to raise the concentration of quality discussion, they need to let threads die. If I start up a thread and ask "what's a good stand up style?", rather than have 40 people say "search function noob...", let whoever gets there first rip them for not lurking/searching or posting in the wrong thread, then everyone else further show your contempt by not posting the exact same thing, it just cloggs up the New Post list.

polishillusion
3/03/2007 6:57pm,
CONFLICT RESOLUTION TIME.

Lets argue! Begin.

1) I hate the lack of actual training groups starting from Bullshido. Throwdowns as great and all, but i can never make them. I wish there would be more weekly things i could EASILY find time for, and that were more of a "offline" community between us, since we have the ability to do a LOT more then just punk bul-artists all over the internet.

2) Make a Bullshido "Seal of Approval" for GOOD schools that they could hang in the window and that could be used as some kind of industry standard. If Bullshido keeps going the way its going, it will be an industry standard in a few years or already could be considered one in certain circles.