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Virtua
4/24/2007 7:47pm,
and they have a traditional program as well. like any good kung fu school.

http://www.bskstudio.com/

Because TCMA has great commercial value,
but that doesn't mean it is useful for fighting.

Ming Loyalist
4/24/2007 9:57pm,
Interesting, it appears to be taught by a totally different guy, almost as if it had nothing to do with fighting at all...

not that uncommon to have a different person teach san shou class than forms... i don't know much about that school other than it's superb san shou record. i don't know how closely the two programs are tied.



Well, Marvin Perry seems to call it Sanda, but what the **** would he know, eh?

a lot of good schools will let you only train in the san shou classes if you like. they would most likely call the class san shou or san da.

you're making a big deal out of something that in the case of good schools who have san shou programs isn't a big deal at all. a variety of classes are offered. students take the classes they want to take. granted these schools are in the minority.

are there places with no traditional classes and only san shou classes? maybe, but most schools are based in some traditional style.

is the only reason they have traditional programs to generate revenue? i don't think so, but i guess it's possible. martial arts schools aren't that profitable in the first place.

Virus
4/25/2007 12:18am,
But there's a pretty strong body of evidence that you don't actually need the traditional forms and stuff. So isn't it just dead weight?

colonelpong2
4/25/2007 1:38am,
Early in my TMA days as a youngster I remember thinking "I really dont see how this would actually work. But it must do in real life, otherwise they wouldnt teach it".


SHudder

kid_1412
4/25/2007 2:39am,
(hmmmm.let me see......oh,yea!)
i used to believe those 'long range ki attack'(you knw....like 'street fighter' or 'dragon ball'stuff) and i also believe that 'FUTAE NO KIWAMI' is real
(futae no kiwami:an attack which being executed by punching something using foreknuckles,followed by your knuckle at highspeed.they said the power of this punch is 10X stronger than ordinary reverse punch)

ChiBlast
4/25/2007 5:15am,
I used to believe that strikers only lost so badly in MMA comps cos they weren't allowed to eye gouge etc.

Ming Loyalist
4/25/2007 8:28am,
But there's a pretty strong body of evidence that you don't actually need the traditional forms and stuff. So isn't it just dead weight?

yet again, i think you don't care about the answer and are just trolling but i will indulge you one more time, but i think this thread has gotten derailed, so we're pretty close to having to separate off these posts about sanda/traditional kung fu to their own thread.

you certainly don't NEED the traditional forms, or the traditional stance work, or the traditional conditioning methods to learn to fight under the sanda rule set. whether the individual fighter chooses to make them part of their training is up to them.

some of us think that they have value as training tools. i find they each have a place in a TCMA school, although to use every training method available is not practical for the casual practitioner, strictly from a time standpoint (most people train 2-3 times a week - i estimate that to do all the traditional stuff and all the modern stuff, one needs to train 6 days a week.)

that's why i tend to change up the routine regularly and rotate through a variety of training methods. that's also why i offer 2 programs and allow students to take either or both, depending on what they are looking for.

let me explain this in terms you can understand...

is roadwork NEEDED for a boxer? it's certainly a big part of the training regime of most boxers. can you fight without doing roadwork? yes, although you should most likely replace it with something like biking, swimming, HITS, etc.

how about weight training? skipping rope? footwork-only drills?

it's up to the fighter and their coach to develop a training program that covers all the needed areas.

it's also worth noting that not everything i have done in kung fu has been useful in the ring, BUT that doesn't mean it's "dead weight" as some of it has helped me in my daily life: stance training can be useful on the nyc subways when people are getting pushy, or i can't get a pole to hang on to, my stancework helps me stay put.

some of the traditional blocks work from a hands-down position so i haven't used them in the ring, but they sure came in handy when i got hit by a car and went head first through the windshield. if i hadn't covered up with my elbow, my head would have taken the impact rather than my elbow. that seemed pretty useful at the time, since i could have died or been severely injured in that case.

MoonSoo
4/25/2007 12:44pm,
Well, here's a few from me.

A few years ago (about 3 I think):

It was possible to launch ki energy balls after using much concentration.
It was possible to levetate in the air from enough meditation.

2 years ago:

Tae Kwon Do is the best art for fighting and defense.
There is no need to punch if you can kick.
Tae Kwon Do's kicks were better than Muay Thai's kicks since Tae Kwon Do's kicks looked cleaner and were faster.
Grapplers could not defeat my powerful kicks (that was after beating a Jujitsu practitioner in a sparring match).
Kung Fu is one of the greatest martial arts of all time.
Bloodsport is one of the most accurate movies portraying the martial arts of all time.
Jeet Kune Do is a Chinese art.
Jeet Kune Do was all about "WATAAH!" and Bruce Lee stuff.
Since I'm Korean, I must learn other Korean arts and prove myself as a true Korean martial artist (Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and Tang Soo Do).
Anyone that does not study martial arts are weak and can not fight.
Boxing was not a martial art.
I could fight numerous opponents at once and defeat them all easily.
Karate was weak compared to Tae Kwon Do.
All American Karate dojos were McDojos.
If the master was of Asian ethnecity, then it must be the real deal.
Kickboxing was sloppy.
Judo's lack of strikes left it as weak.
Boxing was pointless.

Wow, talk about me being completely arrogant...

PizDoff
4/25/2007 1:36pm,
http://boston-kickboxing.com/

I've actually visited the place in Boston. Though meetings tied me up all day I was still able to stop by later on. Seems a nice place inside and the guys seem to go pretty hard. Fortuantely for them there are a few hospitals nearby!

Permalost
4/25/2007 4:15pm,
So when you move to new neighborhoods, do you have to go door-to-door and announce "in accordance with the law, i have to notify you that I am a registered black belt."?

Yes, and if they don't sign the paper I threaten them with my trained fist.

troile
4/26/2007 12:17am,
That I can take hits from people 30-80 lbs heavier than me sparring. Really learned that was false.

timjitsu
4/26/2007 12:34am,
kid blackbelts were the ****.

weight doesn't matter.

you don't need muscles.

timjitsu
4/26/2007 12:34am,
TKD is the best.

Epicurus
4/26/2007 1:08am,
Cool to see that this thread is still around.

I remember I used to think that Judo was totally worthless because it had no striking (because striking is MUCH more important than grappling) and that wrestlers would be no match for someone who could use strikes at all.

I also remember being told in Judo that size/strength was totally irrellevant to fighting (then why is the Sensei always trying to get us to build muscle?).


P.S:



After I went I became aware that the techniques we learned were really useless and of course we spend lots of time practicing forms. The first time we had fight with aliveness was at the black belt test. You should have seen that. Everybody was just hitting and kicking around like maniacs. Everybody was philosophizing about how to use the power of the whole body and writing long essays about Chi and how to turn your waste correctly but nobody could fight.

I think a lot of TMAs focus a lot on manipulating their waste.

rordogs
4/26/2007 7:00am,
I used to beleive that asians could pass down knowledge of martial arts to their children through their DNA alone.

wow dude. just wow...


and that a black belt was proof of genuine skill.

what about bjj?

PirateJon
4/26/2007 7:05am,
I used to believe martial arts were just about fighting. But there's so much more than that.