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AeroChica
4/23/2007 10:29am,
Well, this is a fun thread to resurect. Let's see....


I used to believe that having a black belt meant something - that you actually had worked and trained to get it. I have learned that this is not always the case. In our art your black belt cannot be achieved in less than 6 years, and I thought all arts had similar standards. Then I met a 2-year black belt, a 12 year old sensei and a grappler who gave himself a purple belt and just rolls no-gi so he doesn't have it challenged. Now, when a parent proudly tells me of their kid's impending black belt grading, I have to fight to keep a straight face and look impressed.

We have a colleague who is very well qualified and legitimately ranked who was offered the 10th dan leadership of an art he was not affiliated with and a head position in it's federation, and it would have only cost him $6 000. He turned it down, thank heaven.

el dangeroso
4/23/2007 11:16pm,
I bought into that whole thing that kicking someone in the head made about as much sense as punching them in the foot. Your hands are up here, your feet are down there. Blocking a few kicks with my head kinda changed my mind.

Virus
4/24/2007 2:59am,
I used to believe that judo ukemi wasn't very good because people could step on your arm.

Virtua
4/24/2007 3:19am,
What kind of CMA are you recovering from? In my opinion it's not all bad, jus the overwhelming majority of it is.

I trained modern wushu with a master from China for two years during my highschool time in Germany. As we had lots of fun learning fancy moves, I never spend much time wondering why we didn't learn how to fight.

After graduation I went to National Taiwan University for studying and joined the kuoshu club there. One word: It was a ma cult. The teacher Chen Qinghe was quite good at throwing students around in a very spectacular way, but none of his students (he has many) could do what he was able to do, and everybody thought when we train long enough one day we will be able to do those things, too.

His school taught two style mainly; the Changquan-style of master Han Qingtang (Central Kuoshu Kuan, Nanking) and Hongquan with all the animal stuff.

The politics of the club were really dirty, many people were crowded out. At the end I left together with a friend who had become a victim of club politics.

After I went I became aware that the techniques we learned were really useless and of course we spend lots of time practicing forms. The first time we had fight with aliveness was at the black belt test. You should have seen that. Everybody was just hitting and kicking around like maniacs. Everybody was philosophizing about how to use the power of the whole body and writing long essays about Chi and how to turn your waste correctly but nobody could fight. And of course everybody looked down on Sanda, MMA and other non-traditional stuff.

The funniest thing is that just few days ago, one member of the club has posted an article on the martial arts board of PTT (the BBS of the university) of how to break out an arm-bar by biting the opponent, which caused that he was challenged who learned one month BJJ and had six lessons in Boxing. After that other people were arguing that MA is not about fighting and it seems that the guy challenged will not fight with him.

CMA that not sucks? At least no traditional style.

Virus
4/24/2007 3:50am,
It works great when you don't actually use it.

Virtua
4/24/2007 3:58am,
Luckily, I never had to use it. But everybody wanted to see me performing it. And that really sucked, because I always wanted to be a martial artist no circus artist.

Ming Loyalist
4/24/2007 6:33am,
CMA that not sucks? At least no traditional style.

sorry you got taken in by a bullshit artist, but there are a few people on here who disagree with that last statement of yours. they show up to throwdowns. you should too.

Virtua
4/24/2007 7:22am,
sorry you got taken in by a bullshit artist, but there are a few people on here who disagree with that last statement of yours. they show up to throwdowns. you should too.

I didn't say it's bullshit. But their are better and faster ways to get fighting abilities.

At least in China the case is clear. I read an interview with Mei Huizhi who trained Xingyi and Bagua as a child, then went on to learn boxing and shuaijiao. In the 70s he was one of the first teachers for the judo national team, and after that participated in the development of Sanda.

About TCMA, he said that they had tournaments in Sanda in 1980 and 1981 where more than 100 fighter from traditional schools participated but nobody reached the semifinals. TCMA fighters got hit two times and the fights were over. Even when Li Baoru organized a "throwdown" without gloves after the tournament for some fighter who wanted revenge TCMA lost.

The same thing happened at the Shaolin Cup in 1985 and 1986 and the Wudang Shan Leitaisai in 1987. Fighter dressed like monks and taoist came and made a big show but after two days only sanda fighter were still competing.

So where is the good traditional CMA? China? No! Here in Taiwan? I don't think so! But maybe in the US... who knows...

Ming Loyalist
4/24/2007 8:28am,
you just don't know what you are talking about.

search more of the old threads, read more. post less for now.

is there an astounding amount of BS in TCMA? yes. in fact i would say most of it is total BS.

is there NO good, traditional CMA? no, there is some, in the US, in the UK, in europe, in china, in taiwan, etc.

FYI, sanda is a rule set, not a style. calling the fighters who won the tournaments you are speaking of "sanda fighters" is the first clue that you don't know what you are talking about. any TCMA school worth it's salt has "sanda fighters" in it.

Ronin.74
4/24/2007 8:47am,
CMA that not sucks? At least no traditional style.

I will have to disagree with this statement. You were correct about a lot of things though. Modern Wushu is entirely performance based and has little to 0 actual application value. Chang Quan (Longfist) for the most part anymore also falls into the performace category, I personally have never seen a style of ChangQuan that looked like it could be used for anything other than pretty acrobatics.

There are traditional styles that are pretty no nonsense. I've heard a lot of good things about Hung Gar, I train Baji and found it to be quite good when trained with aliveness. I am sure that their are other traditional CMAs that fall into this same group.

Now that you've been exposed to plenty of BS you'll know what to avoid in the future.

Ronin.74
4/24/2007 8:54am,
you just don't know what you are talking about.

search more of the old threads, read more. post less for now.

is there an astounding amount of BS in TCMA? yes. in fact i would say most of it is total BS.

is there NO good, traditional CMA? no, there is some, in the US, in the UK, in europe, in china, in taiwan, etc.

FYI, sanda is a rule set, not a style. calling the fighters who won the tournaments you are speaking of "sanda fighters" is the first clue that you don't know what you are talking about. any TCMA school worth it's salt has "sanda fighters" in it.

This would be the correct.

Virus
4/24/2007 9:11am,
Why does hung gar look like this?

http://mantiskungfu.webz.cz/galerie1/wongmoontoy.jpg

http://www.springtimesong.com/DrawingHungGarMaster222.jpg

or am I missing something about the photos?

Ming Loyalist
4/24/2007 9:17am,
Why does hung gar look like this?
or am I missing something about the photos?


if you really want to know, then start a thread in the CMA forum.

if you're just trolling, then don't derail this thread any more, unless you can relate those isolated pictures of one part of a form to "stupid things you used to believe about martial arts"

El Neko
4/24/2007 9:24am,
Hell, here I go.

I was give the option to practice Wrestling, Judo or point sparring BS in highschool, I went for Judo.... for two days and then change to the point sparring **** because of the spinning kicks and all the BS (I didn't even try wrestling because there was no way I was going to get into a singlet)

Once I met a guy who was a hakama wearer, and he had a bunch of old videos of Ueshiba with people falling before they were even touch (Classic Ueshiba) and he told me that it was because of his Ki, he didn't even need to touch people... it was like a wall... etc.... and I belive that crap... The reason I feel bad is because I was 19 at the time, so you would think I knew better. :sad:

Kuk Sool Won was the bestest MA of all, I mean, we have throws, kicking, weapons and ki development techniques, what can go wrong?:5geezer:

and I used to buy every single Budo International (cinturon negro in the spanish version) and believe every single thing they said about ninjas, _ing _un, and Steven Seagull

Ronin.74
4/24/2007 9:34am,
Hell, here I go.

I was give the option to practice Wrestling, Judo or point sparring BS in highschool, I went for Judo.... for two days and then change to the point sparring **** because of the spinning kicks and all the BS (I didn't even try wrestling because there was no way I was going to get into a singlet)

Once I met a guy who was a hakama wearer, and he had a bunch of old videos of Ueshiba with people falling before they were even touch (Classic Ueshiba) and he told me that it was because of his Ki, he didn't even need to touch people... it was like a wall... etc.... and I belive that crap... The reason I feel bad is because I was 19 at the time, so you would think I knew better. :sad:

Kuk Sool Won was the bestest MA of all, I mean, we have throws, kicking, weapons and ki development techniques, what can go wrong?:5geezer:

and I used to buy every single Budo International (cinturon negro in the spanish version) and believe every single thing they said about ninjas, _ing _un, and Steven Seagull

It's ok Neko, I was 18 when I started MA and also believed some of the same BS you did. I started to believe it less and less about a year and a half later when I met a kickboxer who handed me my ass. That's when all my fantasies about MA started to crumble.

Virus
4/24/2007 9:39am,
I have a book about old Japanese budo and it says that some masters of kiai can paralyze birds.