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View Full Version : Just another newbie, could you please slap me with some cold, hard truth?



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iopyud
1/15/2007 10:42am,
Hi, first a brief intro... I'm not really illiterate about Martial Arts, Bullshido, GRAB MY WRIST LOL, Anti-Ground Fighting LAVA TECHNIQUE and WING CHUN ROFL EXPOSE T3H SIDE!
I know all about those.

I've done my research and I've lurked for an insanely long time and have known the site since... I don't remember, and I've posted in some other MA forums before.

I've been doing Judo for a couple of months now.
Sadly, I kind of suck at it, but I still keep on going, my objective is self defence, not tournaments to begin with so I should be OK for now. But it IS kind of tiring to keep on getting owned.

No problems with Judo.

The problem is the "other art".
Yep, the.... "OTHER ARTZ OMFG!"

It's Aikido. I keep hearing things about it. We train in a very traditional way, and everything IS choreographed, doesn't really matter if 10 people attack me if they wait until I face them and attack with one lousy technique.
Man, I just wanted to learn some knife defense, I mean, yeah sure, I'd give my wallet and run and crap but I still want to learn some knife defense.


Thing is, I was advised not to worry about the effectiveness, but rather just concentrate on doing the proper drills, they drill alot to perfect the technique, and the instructor never mentioned Ki. He just goes like...

"This is correct but it's too dangerous, so during practice just bend it this way."
"If he's going that way, drag him that way."
"No, don't sway back when the attack is a stabbing motion, the knife will catch up with your bladder."

Or something.


Anyway, I should cooperate during drills, if I don't it really hurts and something feels like breaking.


I keep on reading about aliveness and stuff. I've found a Kali club, but the people made me uncomfortable, you know, guys who think they have godlike knife skillz when all they seem to do is do choreographed slow mo knife drills over and over and the whole you learn everything in X sessions and stuff. They say you need to brush your techniques after the first sessions, but blah.
They charge too much, pressures the interested person and crap, so I didn't continue.


Question is, I am gonna get stabbed like the little piece of cooperative **** that I am, huh?
I need opinions from both Aikidokas and non-aikidokas.

Those two are the most legitimate clubs that I can get. They're affiliated with big international organizations. I mean, yeah, I know that big international TKD organization which is Bullshido, but what about these guys?
They don't really accept a technique that lands a point and causes your butt to land on the ground as well after kicking.


They seem scientific. But then again, this is the first time I'm doing Aikido, and I feel like continuing it. Never know what I can learn and if there's none, I can still brush my accuracy, reflexes and minor workout, right?
I mean, if it was me, while he's busy GRABBING THE OTHER GUYS WRIST LOL, I'd hit him with a bat on the head. I don't care if he can't defend, it's his problem, my job is to attack. I do my best to emulate an attacker and fulfill my role as one in order to let my partner learn, but if it's gonna be choreographed like that, I mean... come on.

But then again, I just started, there might be other randori style there.
Is there?
The senior said that there are different approaches in randori. Multiple attackers, you can attack back, all you do is defend, 1v1, etc.

I'mma search the forums for Aikido topics, KK?
But tell me what you think anyway.

And thanks for pretending to care, BTW. I appreciate it.

...

Come on, what do you guys think?
Don't hold back... I know you won't hold back.
Hit me with all you got!

Come on!

COME ON!

Well, what are you waiting for?!

NAIL MEEEEEHHHH!!!

BJJbot
1/15/2007 10:43am,
Welcome to Bullshido, the best Martial Arts forum on the entire Internet, iopyud. Seriously, you won't regret your choice to join us. We're a great bunch of folks, except for Hannibal. And Sirc. And TaiGip. And MMA Kid. And... well, you get the point.

BackFistMonkey
1/15/2007 10:45am,
first off welcome to Bullshido

Now that that is out of the way ...

in Newbietown ... We cannot rip you a new asshole . You are protected with in this section of the forum . If you had really lurked you would know that .


Now I can give you a way to find your own answer to what you say your question is
Question is, I am gonna get stabbed like the little piece of cooperative **** that I am, huh?

Have someone try to stab and mark you with a marker . You will answer you own question .

Nothing prearranged ... hand a random friend a magic marker and tell them "knife" you .

iopyud
1/15/2007 10:51am,
Hey thanks, guys.
I have to admit, I'm a little careful when posting, that's why I posted on the Newbie forum.
I mean, I didn't come here to argue, if someone flames me, fine. Let it be. Don't have time for that.

Just came here to ask questions.

Anyway, thanks again. Still looking around for Aikido and Knife Defense topics.

leere_form
1/15/2007 10:52am,
my opinion is that if aikido against an unarmed attack will get your ass beat, which it will, then aikido against a knife attack will get you killed.

i speak from experience on the unarmed part, since i did aikido for two years, and the knife part is arrived at with simple deductive reasoning.

if you're into effective knife defense, someone should, i hope, be along to point you towards some of the few groups out there that train knife stuff realistically and effectively.

chances are, they won't have a training location in your area.

so, have you ever considered simply coming to terms with your ultimate powerlessness and inevitable (potentially violent) death at the hands of a meaningless and uncaring world?

no? still interested in self-defense?

well okay, google the dog brothers or something. they fight with sticks for real and do similar things with training knives, i gather.

pauli
1/15/2007 10:55am,
Have someone try to stab and mark you with a marker . You will answer you own question .

Nothing prearranged ... hand a random friend a magic marker and tell them "knife" you.++

every school should have marker fights from time to time.

iopyud
1/15/2007 10:57am,
Heard about the Dog Brothers.
HARDER LEARNING THROUGH HARDER CONTACT!

Or something like that. Sadly, this country I am in is crap.
And I heard their stick grapplorz too.

Not gonna try Aikido if I can Casino-Royale-Black-Man-Escape my way out.
Sorry if I sounded racist, btw, but I damn well love that guy.
But I wanna stay and see what they're going to feed me just for the sake of curiosity, as long as I am aware or at least have an idea what works and what doesn't, I should be fine, right?

BackFistMonkey
1/15/2007 10:57am,
Hey thanks, guys.
I have to admit, I'm a little careful when posting, that's why I posted on the Newbie forum.
I mean, I didn't come here to argue, if someone flames me, fine. Let it be. Don't have time for that.

Just came here to ask questions.

Anyway, thanks again. Still looking around for Aikido and Knife Defense topics.



Have someone try to stab and mark you with a marker . You will answer you own question .

Nothing prearranged ... hand a random friend a magic marker and tell them "knife" you .

I gave you a solution to your question , are you going to comment ?

And there is only one person posting above your 2nd post besides yourself ...

As for your search start here (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/search.php?searchid=1244568)

iopyud
1/15/2007 11:02am,
Hmm, I'm gonna check later, but thanks about the marker stuff and the search starter.
Will check later or tomorrow.
Man... that was wierd, did you edit your message, did I miss it, or did my 56k Powered Browser didn't show everything?

Anyway, thanks again.
See you later.

MacWombat
1/15/2007 11:05am,
Stop doing Aikido and start having highspeed internet.

iopyud
1/15/2007 11:07am,
Oh yeah, sorry about that, didn't notice.
That's what I get for multi-tasking.

Thanks for the advice and search starter.

I have this short stick thing, I can probably substitute that for a marker, but yeah, a marker's better, I believe.
So, what should be my objective? Throw him down or parry and run?

Oh and I might be a little busy later, so I won't be replying as fast.
Anyway, thanks alot for your time, dude.

BackFistMonkey
1/15/2007 11:38am,
Oh yeah, sorry about that, didn't notice.
That's what I get for multi-tasking.

Thanks for the advice and search starter.

I have this short stick thing, I can probably substitute that for a marker, but yeah, a marker's better, I believe.
So, what should be my objective? Throw him down or parry and run?

Oh and I might be a little busy later, so I won't be replying as fast.
Anyway, thanks alot for your time, dude.

Simple ... give an untrained person ( untrained in knives or aikido to be most effective ) . Put on your white gi top and your magic pants (flame whip mother fucker ) . Invite a friend over ... warm up while he or she travels to your home .

When they come in the door hand them a red sharpie and tell them you are going to try and evade , flow , and practice your knife disarms . All he has to do is "slice or stab" you realisticly .

He is not to do one attack then stop . He/she is going to attack you in any manner they choose as long as they are trying to actually cut you some where ( may want to limit head cuts unless you have goggles ) .. preferably the closest part of you in relation to them .

Do it once ( once meaning untill you disarm them or you feel your chest , wrist , inner elbow , or inner thigh get hit with the marker ). Stop and check your gi top , arms , chest ,and neck for marks .

Each mark will represent about 3 or 4 real cuts from someone who is trained to fight with a knife ... mainly becouse the cutting surface of a blade is much larger than the marking surface of magic marker ( sharpie ) .

Try again and again . If you have any white gi pants or skirts you may want to wear them instead of the black ones .

Matt W.
1/15/2007 11:43am,
Well, I haven't done Aikido, but I have done Hapkido as a kid, and I currently train defensive tactics a couple times a year which involves several standing wristlocks and "come-alongs" like what you'd find in Aikido. And I haven't trained Judo, but I have wrestling. Here's my thoughts.

As long as you keep Judo as the foundation of your fighting/grappling skill you'll be fine. Judo will give you everything you need from the basics of grappling, groundwork, tactics and conditioning. If you take some cool Aikido techniques and ADD THEM to your basic Judo, then you will get two things. You will get a couple usefull submissions that you can surprise people with (once you have used Judo/basic grappling to gain a dominant position), and you will learn some useful controlling techniques.

The thing about the locks in Aikido is that they only work under two conditions (neither of whihc is ususally mentioned by Aikidoka). They work when your opponent is not fully resisting/attacking, and they work when you have already established a dominant position. If someone is coming at you full bore, trying to grab a small, fast moving target like a wrist, and then maintain control of it while you execute a technique, is going to be low percentage to say the least. If someone is only passively resisting, or half heartedly attacking (e.g. lightly shoving you while talking smack), then they may work.

I have encountered two time a wristlock worked well. The first was when I was a kid, and I surprised a bigger kid with a wrislock throw. The second was when I was submitted with a wristlock at BJJ class by a guy who already was doing a good job of controlling me. And that last one only worked since I was surprised by it. I've since learned a really easy (and I mean EASY) escape from it.

Hope that helped.

iopyud
1/15/2007 9:04pm,
I'm going to try that marker thing.

And thanks, Matt.
Yeah, I've been skeptical since the beginning, wrist grabs? If they were so effective, it would've been used in UFC and Pride, right? I mean, that'd be an instant tap-out... ideally.

And yeah, I see what you're saying. That's my second objective. If I can get something here, OK, I'll see if I can apply it in Judo. I mean, just as long as I don't strike and smudge the face everything else is technically legal.

I was thinking more about their parries and evasions, see if I can apply them when someone's after me with a marker. Not gonna grab their wrist or anything, maybe my objective if I can't wrist lock them is to take them down with Judo after parrying, or gain proper distance to be able to run away.

I don't know, I mean, it's not like I have any choice.
After all, if it's not effective, I'm going to have a big black mark on my back or neck.

If someone who can really emulate a thug goes after me, my idea of what works and what doesn't will improve.

[EDIT]

I'm reading this and I so much agree with his comment about FMA, being a Filipino myself.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Alot of Arnis/Kali schools near me don't really care about surviving, more often than not, they just want you to be able to teach T3H FMA to foreigners for $$$.

Matt W.
1/15/2007 9:18pm,
Do you know what a 2 on 1 is?

2 on 1 the weapon arm, then throw or takedown. Strip the weapon. That's a reasonable knife defense.

Goju - Joe
1/15/2007 9:20pm,
2 things you need to know about knifes and defense.

Read the papers, most people who get stabbed get stabbed in the back. People who use knifes are not going to honorably attack you so you can do any type of defense.

Second truth is even in the best case scenario you're most likely to get cut. Good knife defense should be about how to minimize the risk of getting a vital artery cut and how to control the knife wielding arm.