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The Two
12/29/2006 8:45pm,
I honestly did not know where to go with this so if this thread needs to be moved go for it.
I'm interested in finding out about any sites, books, etc. that deal with legal issues regarding martial artists using their skills in self defence. I was wanting to know what the law says is excessive force in regards to our skills,what rights we have and what legal resources are available to us.

Doctor X
12/29/2006 8:52pm,
Hmm . . . mayhaps shoot a PM to Ninja Claus/Samuel and get his opinion. Not HERE, but on a lot of MA boards there is quite the "bullshit" regarding what someone can and cannot do. There was that thread on t3h d34dly neck break a week or so ago.

You will probably be told that it depends on the state--and country. For example, in Massachusetts it is illegal to defend yourself, whereas in Texas you are allowed to kill anyone if you can establish they do not root for the Dallas Cowboys.

Might make a good thread. Information for each state and all of that. Could even be "prunned" into a FAQ type review thread in the end that would be "a good thing" for the site.

--J.D.

Iscariot
12/29/2006 9:10pm,
There was talk of this kind of FAQ with region specific evidence discussed in the BBC a while ago.

Axelton
12/30/2006 3:28pm,
just ask a private investigator

FUNKtastic
12/31/2006 4:51am,
Has anyone else encountered the geniuses that claimed they didn't have their black belt because they would "have to register with the police" or are registered as "deadly weapons because they have their blackbelts?

:::sigh::: I'd rather defend myself and face the consequences than get beaten to a bloody pulp for fear of the cops, just my 2 cents =)

AMF
12/31/2006 9:33pm,
I honestly did not know where to go with this so if this thread needs to be moved go for it.
I'm interested in finding out about any sites, books, etc. that deal with legal issues regarding martial artists using their skills in self defence. I was wanting to know what the law says is excessive force in regards to our skills,what rights we have and what legal resources are available to us.


Waaaallll I'll take a shot at this. Keep in mind like it has been said before, each state is different.

The way I understand it, one can do enough to defend themselves, or some one else, with a [B][I]reasonable amount of force.[I][B] I had a police officer tell me a couple of years ago that the "I was in fear of my or so and so's life" phrase is a useful one.

The way I teach force protection/ rules of engagement in the Navy to the young guys coming in and being exposed to such things for the first time is: do enough to stop the threat.
I'll use escalation of force as an example. I tell them if it goes all the way to firearms and they have to pull their side arm and shoot, they shoot center mass and they shoot to stop the threat. If they fire one round, and the threat is neutralized, thats it, they're done.

So I hope that helps/ gives some clarity.

Punisher
1/01/2007 12:05am,
Laws vary from state to state, region to region. And interpretations of those laws vary cop to cop, prosecutor to prosecutor, judge to judge, and jury to jury.

Unfortnately there are no really easy answers, no clear guidelines to follow. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts here on the site giving different views on the subject.

Slipster
1/01/2007 3:23pm,
Laws vary from state to state, region to region. And interpretations of those laws vary cop to cop, prosecutor to prosecutor, judge to judge, and jury to jury.

Unfortnately there are no really easy answers, no clear guidelines to follow. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts here on the site giving different views on the subject.
I was just looking up this very thing on the internet. Punisher is correct. Your best bet is to google for the specific state that you're in. I looked up the laws on self-defense for Nebraska. They are located here:

http://statutes.unicam.state.ne.us/Corpus/Statutes/chap28/R2814009.html

Perhaps your state has a similar website, perhaps the Secretary of State's page. Hope this helps...

TehDeadlyDimMak
1/01/2007 3:33pm,
Call up the local Sheriff/precinct/court/tribal warrior and find out.

It really does depend on what state/country/province/underwater kingdom you hail from.

The Two
1/16/2007 9:52pm,
I've been gone a little while, going to classes. But now I'm back and would like to thank everyone for the input. Especially AMF and Slipster. One of the reasons for starting this thread involves my girlfriend. She is disabled from a birth defect, and suffers from partial paralysis from the waist down. The reason I bring this up is that I've gone over in my head what to do if we were attacked. Now I know there is an impossible number of variables that can happen in a dangerous situation. I was primarily interested in finding out what may happen if I have to use more force than what is necessary to render my attacker unconcious. For example as I have mentioned about my girlfriend above I'm not about to turn and run away when she can't. So would I be justified in breaking my opponents arm(s) to insure our safety. Anyway thanks again AMF your post did help to clairify things. I'll also message Samuel Browning on this and see if he would like to say anything.

Ke?poFist
1/16/2007 11:04pm,
Has anyone else encountered the geniuses that claimed they didn't have their black belt because they would "have to register with the police" or are registered as "deadly weapons because they have their blackbelts?

:::sigh::: I'd rather defend myself and face the consequences than get beaten to a bloody pulp for fear of the cops, just my 2 cents =)

Registering your hands (or other extremities) with the police is an utter lie, and urban legend. If anything, most black belts should have to register themselves with police protection for being completely unable to defend themselves.

Ke?poFist
1/16/2007 11:08pm,
I've been gone a little while, going to classes. But now I'm back and would like to thank everyone for the input. Especially AMF and Slipster. One of the reasons for starting this thread involves my girlfriend. She is disabled from a birth defect, and suffers from partial paralysis from the waist down. The reason I bring this up is that I've gone over in my head what to do if we were attacked. Now I know there is an impossible number of variables that can happen in a dangerous situation. I was primarily interested in finding out what may happen if I have to use more force than what is necessary to render my attacker unconcious. For example as I have mentioned about my girlfriend above I'm not about to turn and run away when she can't. So would I be justified in breaking my opponents arm(s) to insure our safety. Anyway thanks again AMF your post did help to clairify things. I'll also message Samuel Browning on this and see if he would like to say anything.

One assailant = RNC FTW
Multiple assailants = random blunt object FTW, saving your RNC for the last guy standing

But a serious answer, I don't think many courts will find you guilty of anything in an act of pure self defense. As long as you don't kill the guy, I don't see any reason why not to break the guys face/arm/leg/genitalia when he's trying to cause you harm or threatening you with lethal force.

Sam Browning
1/16/2007 11:27pm,
"Hi. I have started a thread in newbietown about the legal ramifications of martial artists and the use of force. I've heard you work in the legal field and wanted to know if you've had a chance to check out the thread and if you had any thoughts on the subject?"

Dear Two:

I have a very busy week of work ahead of me. I am burned out with newbies coming to Bullshido and asking for free legal advice. I suggest you sit down with a local lawyer in Nebraska and pay him $100 to answer your question for you.

Doctor X
1/17/2007 1:15am,
Samuel:

Do not blame the Newbie; I recommended that he contact you.

. . . and you cannot blame ME because I am so wonderful. . . .

Now, you are still going to take care of that "thing" that happened in the public restroom for me, yes?


Has anyone else encountered the geniuses that claimed they didn't have their black belt because they would "have to register with the police" or are registered as "deadly weapons because they have their blackbelts?

This is an "Urban Legend." I think there is a thread on it HERE, but basically Okinawan styles came to America through American servicemen discovering and training in dojos. They were required to register where they were. To my memory, this was eventually dropped as being pointless, but led to the "I had to register" myth.

--J.D.

Sam Browning
1/17/2007 10:15am,
Samuel:

Do not blame the Newbie; I recommended that he contact you.

. . . and you cannot blame ME because I am so wonderful. . . .

Now, you are still going to take care of that "thing" that happened in the public restroom for me, yes?



This is an "Urban Legend." I think there is a thread on it HERE, but basically Okinawan styles came to America through American servicemen discovering and training in dojos. They were required to register where they were. To my memory, this was eventually dropped as being pointless, but led to the "I had to register" myth.

--J.D.

Oh, the bathroom incident. You were conducting field research for a sociological book, "The Tearoom Trade, 30 years later". It was written up in your neck of the woods.

Doctor X
1/17/2007 10:31am,
And I was carrying "research tools," yes?