PDA

View Full Version : WT anti grappling



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Michael
9/08/2002 3:46pm,
So here I am at an anti grappling program for the Wing Tzun system. Now I'm a nhb, shootfighter, sambo, judo and shan shou person (TKD and Kung fu too but I figured that was besides the point). I've always wondered how effective and modern there approach was and to tell you the truth I'm impressed. Now I'm not going to go out and start taking Wing Tzun but if your thinking of doing it go for it. Normally I throw out a few questions, being the skeptic I am, but he already answered all the questions. He being Michael Casey who, I'm told, is Emin Boetzepe's #1 or #2 student.

SDriver
9/08/2002 4:36pm,
Examples?

Michael
9/08/2002 5:39pm,
Well let me see, he takes a grapplers approach to warm ups using a few wrestling exercises telling everybody that they need to know how this is done. Showing defenses for all the common grappling maneuvers plus standard ankle locks, choke holds, arm bars etc. I'd love to go into details but I don't want to bore everybody. I was just putting my stamp of approval on the WT system even though I don't take the art. This as opposed to the somewhat commercial advertisement history that I saw about a month ago which didn't impress me. This is stuff you've got to see live to appreciate the movements and effectiveness.

darkface
9/09/2002 3:07am,
None of the anti-grappling I have seen from WT has looked like it worked... nto even techniques shown by Emin himself...

bncwd
9/09/2002 5:14am,
Hmmm, Micheal, I had the same impression about WT: the ads were somehow stupid and bullish, but when I started to practice I found out a completely different environment from what I expected (at least in Italy).

I found respect for the other arts, they encourage cross training and analysis of other styles, the training is very practical, aggressive and essential (I come from JJ/BJJ,Kickboxing,Chute Boxe).

I wasn't able to figure out why there this difference between the image they promote through ads and what the environment really is.

darkface
9/09/2002 7:38am,
Whwre did ya train Chute box?

NHB or nothing!

bncwd
9/09/2002 8:03am,
Hi darkface, my former school is based in Livorno (Italy), and it's a school where the teachers do BJJ/JJ, kickboxing and chute boxe: the head of the school is a responsible of fiam (italian federation of martial arts), and his "boys" compete wherever they can (from semi-contact to valetudo).

I trained ther for aprox. 6/7 years, mostly as a hobbist (only 2 matches in the ring).

Last year I wanted to try something different so I started WT (with some Escrima sometimes).

Michael
9/09/2002 12:08pm,
Like I said a lot of the techniques you can't appreciate unless you're there. Trust me when I say I had not been too impressed until I saw it live.

Greese
9/09/2002 12:16pm,
Well, that is kind of specious. I mean, what is going to be different live than on a video? I saw they crap they were trying to pull off. It wouldn't work. Did they just pull out the most ineffective techs for the video or what?

bncwd
9/09/2002 12:33pm,
Well, don't know about the antigrappling as I haven't tried yet, but for the rest with WT there a whole deal of difference betwen seeing it and trying it.

I will try to explain: WT is based 90% on pressure management (pressure given, taken, redirected), weight distribution, corporeal structure and stance, sensitivness, with roots in extremely simple body mechanic and physic.
Kicks are 99% to groin or legs (no high kicks as far as I know), objective is close the distance and hit with short punches, knees, elbows and when appropriate lock and throw (but in a different manner for examlpe than JJ).
This why what you see is no way representative of what you feel in WT, and to understand it you should try it with an instructor in a class.

I know it sounds weird but it's true: it's like seeing two judo masters in an olympic confrontation, there a lot more happening between them (pressures, pulling, resisting, giving way) than the eye can see, but in WT it's even worse.

Little Idea
9/09/2002 12:54pm,
I practice WT. My sifu is Emin Boztepe.

I 'hate' his advertising. I 'love' training with the guy.

I think a big part of it comes down to the difference in mentality. Boztepe is Turkish born-German raised. His world view is not the same as yours or mine. He makes adds he likes. I don't like them.

Its kinda like the difference between British and American comedy.

If you have never seen Emin's WT, go see, better yet go feel it.

ksmythe
9/09/2002 2:25pm,
I agree. Boztepe's adds and even some of the videos can be a bit campy. But once you actually see him in action in person, it's a different story. The guy can definately fight and his anti-grappling program seems straight forward when you consider his goal is train the average person for the average situation they may encounter on the street and not to win a mma contest.

Michael
9/09/2002 2:36pm,
The difference between video and live? What are you a moron let me see...hmmmm

Two dimensional vs three dimensional
Actual effect vs possible staged effect
real fighting vs sport fighting (maybe bad example)
You watch TV a lot and don't get out much do you? Something blowing up on TV or the computer has much less of an impact than say, a bomb blowing up in your front yard when you least expect it.

I'm coming from the outside and vouching for something. Nobody paid me, nobody encouraged me, and there is no incentive for me to do so. People question his stuff I've seen it, I liked his approach, I'll stick with mine but hey if you would like to use his techniques I'm saying they're practical.

sheesh.

ksmythe
9/09/2002 2:51pm,
I've never seen the anti-grappling videos but what he teaches at seminars is essentially what any grappling school would also teach with more emphasis on striking and integration of WT concepts.

Greese
9/09/2002 3:30pm,
The difference between video and live? What are you a moron let me see...hmmmm

Two dimensional vs three dimensional
Actual effect vs possible staged effect
real fighting vs sport fighting (maybe bad example)
You watch TV a lot and don't get out much do you? Something blowing up on TV or the computer has much less of an impact than say, a bomb blowing up in your front yard when you least expect it.

I'm coming from the outside and vouching for something. Nobody paid me, nobody encouraged me, and there is no incentive for me to do so. People question his stuff I've seen it, I liked his approach, I'll stick with mine but hey if you would like to use his techniques I'm saying they're practical.

sheesh.



OK smart ass. Let me rephrase this "How is what is show in the video different then the "real application" of the technique, understanding that it was suppose to be "this is my style vs a grappler"
What I am trying to get at, is do they do teh same BS crap they do on the ad or do they do different things.

Michael
9/09/2002 3:33pm,
Different
I apologize for my answer I'm on edge today so there. brrrrrrrrrrrrrp