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MaartenSFS
12/25/2006 4:41am,
I came to China when I was 18 years olde with the impression that China was the birthplace of Eastern Martial arts and so they should have the best, and that China was a traditional country..

After years of searching for that mountain-top Shifu and finding nothing but dancers and imported martial arts I have decided to take up the more modern Sanda (AKA Sanshou). Traditional Chinese Martial Arts* in China are DEAD.

I was wondering what your (the educated forum-goers) general opinion of Sanda is. It's not fancy. It doesn't attract tourism. It doesn't represent traditional Chinese culture. The bottom line is... Is it effective?

*Martial Art = The strive for perfection of the techniques that have been tried and tested in combat for combat.

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

Judah Maccabee
12/25/2006 12:29pm,
This is the wrong forum for this, as it relates to a style, not about striking.

That being said, Sanda is considered better in some regards because it trains in ranges beyond pure striking, which is typical of most kung-fu. It's standup with takedowns, and is thereby ALMOST MMA, but not quite.

CanucKyokushin
12/25/2006 12:41pm,
Sanda is for a lack of a better description China's answer to Thai-boxe.

Lights Out
12/25/2006 12:57pm,
Sanda is for a lack of a better description China's answer to Thai-boxe.

Yup, pretty much.

Of course, some Sanda guys can tell you all about how Sando is centuries old, and how it relates to some tournaments between schools of Kung fu and blah, blah, blah...

At least, the train with aliveness, as any other contact sport.

Also, it has some interesting throws.

That being said, I still prefer MT.

CanucKyokushin
12/25/2006 1:37pm,
I remember around late '80s early 90's when I started hearing about Chinese-kickboxing being the true deadly art and all.Of course this was years before I had any interest in starting MA so i was easily impressed .

meng_mao
12/25/2006 3:37pm,
Maarten, most people on this forum would say that Qinna is dead by your definitions, but you seem to feel otherwise. Can you reconcile that with your view on Sanda being the only alive way to train?

MaartenSFS
12/25/2006 9:37pm,
Thanks for the replies. I start tonight. Even though, at first glance, I hated everything about MMA (Lack of culture, history, et cetera) it is still better than dancing with culture and history. Unless... It's sexy belly dancing and my wife is doing it...


Maarten, most people on this forum would say that Qinna is dead by your definitions, but you seem to feel otherwise. Can you reconcile that with your view on Sanda being the only alive way to train?

In regards to Qinna... Qinna is not a style of MA, but rather a subset of all of them. And Qinna is never practised alone. Just because the MAs of today have specialised doesn't mean that they were intented to be learned apart from each other. They all complement each other. Qinna has worked in the past and will continue to work in the future. It all depends on the practitioner's training. I have seen it used to great effect by the Chinese police. That said, it is not a means to an end. Nowadays we can't hack people to bits with a primary weapon (Like the sword, spear) and must rely on secondary weapons like our hands and feet. In the past no masters could go up against countless adversaries without a weapon (And even then..). The same is true today. There are no end-all styles/techniques. If Qinna were not useful to some degree it would not exist and/or would not still be trained by military/police today. Under my definition and from my perspective Qinna is quite alive. Also, my definition does not apply to MA in general. It applies to a specific practitioner that practises that art. If a practitioner sucks it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of that art unless he/she is the founder.

I also don't believe that training "alive" is an end-all solution either. Being in combat day in and day out and testing those techniques on the battlefield is the best way. And you'd eventually get too olde or lose too many body parts and fall, anyways. Most of what people do today is LARPing... Even MMA. *GASP*

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

feedback
12/25/2006 10:30pm,
Kind regards,
Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker, london

MaartenSFS
12/25/2006 10:34pm,
Kind regards,
Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker, london

... Thank you.

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

meng_mao
12/25/2006 10:42pm,
Maarten -- I would say Sanda is a subset of all MA as well, in that its techniques can be found in other arts that are unrelated.

As to aliveness, we cannot fully train safely the ultimate in hand to hand fighting. But Sanda offers much more effectiveness under limited rules (for safe training) than Qinna does, if you were to only train one or the other.

Torakaka
12/25/2006 10:47pm,
This is the wrong forum for this, as it relates to a style, not about striking.


Yep, pretty much. And that's all I have to say about that.

MaartenSFS
12/25/2006 11:14pm,
Maarten -- I would say Sanda is a subset of all MA as well, in that its techniques can be found in other arts that are unrelated.

As to aliveness, we cannot fully train safely the ultimate in hand to hand fighting. But Sanda offers much more effectiveness under limited rules (for safe training) than Qinna does, if you were to only train one or the other.

I agree with you about aliveness and suggest not training one or the other, but everything as pertains to combat. Also, I will focus more on Sanda than Qinna because that will come into effect more frequently. Excluding it, though, would be a mistake. Especially when it comes to day-to-day self defense. But that, again, has more to do with psychology than anything else.

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

Torakaka
12/25/2006 11:56pm,
Qinna feeds on strength and grows stronger and stronger

Goju - Joe
12/26/2006 12:00am,
Doesn't Sanda / Sanshou have more throwing than Muay Thai?

Educate me if I am wrong.

Torakaka
12/26/2006 12:11am,
Doesn't Sanda / Sanshou have more throwing than Muay Thai?

Educate me if I am wrong.

Sanda allows all throws, muay thai only allows upper body throws and sweeps (nothing over the hip, no reaching down to grab the legs, no hooking the leg around)

MaartenSFS
12/26/2006 12:12am,
Doesn't Sanda / Sanshou have more throwing than Muay Thai?

Educate me if I am wrong.

Not necessary to educate you. You are correct. And Sanda fights take place on a Leitai (Raised platform). If you fall off, to my knowledge, you lose.


Qinna feeds on strength and grows stronger and stronger

??? Qinna is just physics, mate. I feed on protein, amongst other things. Some would consider me to be a carnivore. Omnivore is a more correct term, though, as I also eat grains, fruits, and vegetables..

- Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker