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zanaffar
12/15/2006 1:25pm,
Have you ever sparred your instructor/fellow student/super duper grandmaster and felt like, after years of training, you had absolutely no clue how to fight properly? I mean, they made winning against you look so easy, you might as well have dropped your pants and bent over instead of trying. Practice seems to have that effect on people, specifically, good, proper, alive training. After getting hit with the two thousandths punch to the face, one might learn to avoid them, possibly learn to judge their distance, range, and so on Ė all in the effort to not block that punch with their face again. Now, what does this have to do with Aikido as we see it today? Well, pretty much nothing, but this is sort of the point.

You see, it appears, to me at least, that Morohei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido, seemed to know a thing or two about actual combat. Iíve only read books and articles on the man and heard varying accounts of his prowess, but, from these references, it appears that the man knew how to handle himself. Whether natural talent played into the equation, I donít know. Did the man get into a ridiculous amount of real life confrontations? Not sure to be honest (maybe one of you can help me out with these details). However, if my original conjecture about Ueshibaís fighting ability is coherent and justified, then the commulation of his fighting skills and his world views and philosophies into what he called Aikido is logical and not very far fetched. Itís kind of like being really freaking good at slipping punches and avoiding hits, but also being able to catch a bunch of wristlocks.

This type of ability does not, by any means, come from a vacuum. Continuous stress testing of techniques is the only method of learning how to actively avoid getting hit. You can practice doing footwork or working on your guard for hours on end, but without someone trying to cause you harm, itís a wasted effort. Thus, it is my hypothesis that was Ueshiba termed Aikido was what his own, stress tested, badass, fighting ability evolved into Ė being badass while not getting hit. But why in the world is this being taught like it is the starting point of martial arts? I cannot comprehend any one person gaining the ability of evasion that Aikido teaches without, first, requiring the necessity for such evasion to exist. Aikido training simply does not provide this.

My conclusion, therefore, is that the art of Aikido is a flawed conception. It might have worked for Ueshiba in the same way that avoiding getting hit worked for Muhammad Ali Ė it was the evolution of their OWN technique from their OWN experience. Something like Aikido cannot be learned without a stress tested environment Ė and no, Aikido randori, by any means, is not a stress tested environment. Whether Ueshiba possessed superior fighting skills, I cannot say for certain, but I would conclude that if the man was able to evolve his combat skills into a practice that resembles what modern day Aikido tries to mimic, then thatís one man I wouldnít want to tango with.

Iím sorry if this ended up too long, but itís been on my mind for a while. I was just wondering if you guys find any coherence in this or not. Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Lights Out
12/15/2006 1:32pm,
Another anti-Aikido thread? Wow, that's new!

Rock Ape
12/15/2006 2:01pm,
My conclusion, therefore, is that I'm a fucking retard noobie for starting another anti-aikido thread, I need to be kicked in the fucking balls for not using the search feature.Fixed that for you.
Iím sorry if this ended up too long, but itís been on my mind for a while. I was just wondering if you guys find any coherence in this or not. Thanks in advance for the feedback.1. Go pump some iron.
2. Don't tar all aikidoka with the same attitude
3. I LARP so get the **** over yourself.
4. Read my sig, apply it to yourself.

zanaffar
12/15/2006 2:33pm,
Sorry for wasting your time Dave Humm and Light Out.

It simply appears to me that teaching someone Aikido is like teaching someone a certain the mathematics involved in String Theory physics before they've learned long division.

Rock Ape
12/15/2006 2:37pm,
Sorry for wasting your time Dave Humm and Light Out.

It simply appears to me that teaching someone Aikido is like teaching someone a certain the mathematics involved in String Theory physics before they've learned long division.Well of course opinions are like assholes; we've all got em'

ViciousFlamingo
12/15/2006 2:38pm,
Well of course opinions are like assholes; we've all got em'

And some people like to share theirs with others. ;)

RandomTriangle
12/15/2006 2:41pm,
soo if a new member wanted to give theri opinion about a subject that's alread been discussed (Everything) people would prefer that he found an old thread and just brought it up no matter how old it is?

MacWombat
12/15/2006 2:45pm,
No, people don't care about n00bs opinions so they'd rather it wasn't given at all.

Rock Ape
12/15/2006 2:47pm,
My point is simple... Aikido has been very widely debated, discussed and berated here. People who study the art have likewise been debated, discussed and berated.

A search of this site would reveal people's opinions.

Regards

Dave

Feryk
12/15/2006 2:53pm,
Fixed that for you.1. Go pump some iron.
2. Don't tar all aikidoka with the same attitude
3. I LARP so get the **** over yourself.
4. Read my sig, apply it to yourself.


:qgaraduat Congratulations, Dave. You've finally stopped trying to harmonize with everyone.

I'm so proud. :eusa_clap

Rock Ape
12/15/2006 2:55pm,
And some people like to share theirs with others. ;)LOL... I hope you meant they like to share their opinions lol... :new_shock

Regards

Dave

Rock Ape
12/15/2006 2:57pm,
:qgaraduat Congratulations, Dave. You've finally stopped trying to harmonize with everyone.

I'm so proud. :eusa_clap I'm not wearing my Magic Pants at the moment.

Regards

Dave

MastaChance
12/15/2006 3:00pm,
Well you could all organize a throwdown, with Aikido partioners as well as MT and BJJ guys, and then see who comes out on top, also throw an am MMA guy in there, and we will see who does the best, Bruce Lee started the right Idea, and in the martial arts, it still prevails today.

PirateJon
12/15/2006 3:04pm,
I think this thread can be saved. Maybe.


So Dave... aside from the magic pants, what do you think should be used from aikido? Does it have anything worth learning? When I think aikido i think "like tai-chi, but with breakfalls". what are we missing?

Mr. Jones
12/15/2006 3:18pm,
:qgaraduat Congratulations, Dave. You've finally stopped trying to harmonize with everyone.

I'm so proud. :eusa_clap

Dave what is this harmonizing **** everyone keeps cracking jokes about. They make it sound like since I do Aikido I should get it.

zanaffar
12/15/2006 3:24pm,
I'm sure it's inevitable for threads to get derailed; however, I'm not debating the practicality of Aikido techniques and concepts. In fact, I'm almost certain that those techniques and concepts worked just fine for its founder. But it's the nature of those techniques and concepts that I'm trying to put into question. How do you properly teach something that is the evolution of one individual's philosophies and fighting skills when the element of fighting and stress testing is taken out?

I think I might be having some difficulty getting my point across, and I hope I'm not contradicting myself. It's just that I wouldn't suddenly go up to someone and say "I learned how to apply awesome wrist locks against real-life resisting opponents! They really work! Now let's practice them in this prescripted manner."

These views are based on my 3 years of studying Aikido. It feels too forced and artificial, as if I'm trying to learn to walk in someone else's shoes.