View Full Version : if it doesn't work the first time

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7/30/2003 9:46pm,
do you discard the technique for being too complex?
pretty much the simple ones you can do right away, only needing practice and refinement

think in self-defense/street terms

Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

7/30/2003 9:47pm,
Hmmm...It would depend on the technique. You have an example?

7/30/2003 9:56pm,
do you have time to be complex in a self defense situation, or do you do what works without thinking about it.

BASICS, man. fukk the complex techniques. they dont work. if what you do to your opponent FAILS the first time you have just given him the second opportunity to KILL you.

7/30/2003 10:36pm,
Please give an example of an overly complex technique.

The reason I ask is that some ppl probably think something like kata guruma from judo is a "complex" technique when it really isn't.

- Skummer -

If you think you can speak about Tao, it is clear you don't know what you're talking about.
-Lao Tzu

Deadpan Scientist
7/30/2003 10:46pm,

7/30/2003 10:49pm,
I was looking at Frank Shamrock's new tape series
'How to fight and win' (6 tape series)
I found it interesting that the submissions section was only 1 tape and contained a few submissions, instead concentrating on how to apply them PROPERLY:

Front Choke.
Standing Shoulder Lock.
Arm Bar Lock.
Monkey Roll Knee Bar and Leg Locks.
Standing Side Choke.
Dropping Arm Bar.
Rear Naked Choke.

Tong Po
7/30/2003 11:02pm,
Simple techniques which require the least amount of motor skills are the most effective. Forget the Crouching Tiger Hidden Bullshit.

7/30/2003 11:04pm,
Seriously though, I'd like some examples of individual techniques that are too complex.

I tend to believe that complexity is highly subjective. In my nearly 10 years of consistant MA practice, I've only seen a couple of techniques I'd consider too complex and unusable.

Example: A guy was showing a "tai chi application" that had you deflect a punch inward and then continue your arm's motion downard and around the opponent's arm until you were in a type of hammerlock. If your opponent is has a slow spell on him that might work, but otherwise...

- Skummer -

If you think you can speak about Tao, it is clear you don't know what you're talking about.
-Lao Tzu

7/30/2003 11:21pm,
I usually like to keep it simple. However its the so called complex techniques that always catch me out whever I spar someone who trains them harder than me.

Of course some stuff can be overly complex and just not fit your style of fighting, however discarding something because it doesn't work for you the first time is kind of stupid in my opinion.

deus ex machina
7/30/2003 11:23pm,
Palm heel to the face and knee to the groin. Seriously.


"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

Tong Po
7/30/2003 11:26pm,
Knees - Elbows - Headbutts.

7/31/2003 2:45am,
Hehe, you would never 540 someone.
I'm surprised that someone on this board knows the names for the "trick kicks".

And no matter what, I don't think it's easy to make a dumbass walk into that.

A 540 has such a huge wind up.

I know you were joking, so I'm going to stop trying to justify anything.

7/31/2003 2:47am,
That's one cool thing, we never did those goofy trick kicks in my TKD classes.

7/31/2003 7:16am,
"Please give an example of an overly complex technique."


7/31/2003 9:31am,

Indeed. However, with practice a seemingly complex technique can become second nature.

Take the throw "puter kapela" from silat. This throw looks complex to the casual observer because of its unusual nature, yet the throw still works and actually exists in numerous other styles. I'd also say that an "omoplata" looks like a complex technique, but it works anyway.

Now I have seen aikido clips where the guy demonstrating will pull his uke this way, step under his arm and pull the other way, then turn around and finally throw the guy. If that kinda crap is one technique, then I'd say it's far too complex. However, I've always assumed it was a few techniques strung together for dramatic purposes.

- Skummer -

If you think you can speak about Tao, it is clear you don't know what you're talking about.
-Lao Tzu

7/31/2003 10:17am,
Complex techniques can teach simple principles. It sounds like Skummer is describing Shihonage which is an appalingly complex technique. However.. it does incorporate a couple of simple principles that can be of use in a lot of situations.
Its not a teching method that I'd endorse though.