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Justme
7/30/2003 8:43am,
It seems from watching NHB matches that most of the submissions come from the rear naked choke or armbars. What do you think? Is simpler the best way to go?

SLJ
7/30/2003 8:48am,
I'd say armbar, but I'd rather a triangle if I can get it.

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Eyes open wide, looking at the heavens with a tear in my eye.
Yes there's love if you want it, don't sound like a sonnet.

Gezere
7/30/2003 8:51am,
RNC and armbars are seen alot because they tend to be given up alot by the defender. I always wondered why pple don't do more leg attacks, especially to pple who like to jump guard. Most of my matches are won by kneebar or ankle lock mainly because I don't want to fight to pass the guard when I can open it grab a leg and lock it. Also from a good shoot and take down I generally move right into a leg attack. I already got the leg so why fight to mount or gain any other position?

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

Justme
7/30/2003 8:55am,
Thanks Asia. So I understand, so you are in the opponents guard, and like to go for leg attacks. What are the risk associated with leg attacks?

Fisting Kittens
7/30/2003 8:57am,
A lot of people avoid leg submissions for 2 reasons:

1) A lot of places don't spend much time on them, therefore their students suck at them. I myself suck ass at leg locks. I KNOW how to do them, but I have a hard time actually doing them

2) If you **** up a choke or an arm submission you usually still have good position. If you **** up a leg lock you usually have given up good position and most likely wont be able to get it back. I think this is a big reason many people avoid them. In general they are just higher risk submissions.

Of course if you are really good with them they will be high percentage for you becuase most people aren't so great at defending them.

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I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

Justme
7/30/2003 8:59am,
Thanks Fisting Kittens. One reason I heard they are harder to work on in training is because the risk of injury is higher so clubs are more cautious when approaching them. Is this true?

SLJ
7/30/2003 9:04am,
Yes, the heel hook in particular.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Eyes open wide, looking at the heavens with a tear in my eye.
Yes there's love if you want it, don't sound like a sonnet.

Justme
7/30/2003 9:05am,
Thanks, SLJ.

Fisting Kittens
7/30/2003 9:05am,
I would say the heel hook ONLY. avoid that one in training, but in general leg locks are no more dangerous than any submission, if you take your time and crank it slowly.

---------
I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

Gezere
7/30/2003 9:30am,
What are the risk associated with leg attacks?


Getting kicked in the head for one thing, this is a risk from the tackle not the gaurd.

Kitten,

I agree on your points but going for a leg submission from your opponents gaurd is not really a high risk. If you fub it you most likely will be put back into your opponents gaurd as you both try to regain position.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

SLJ
7/30/2003 9:41am,
True, and you're right, it's less trouble than passing.

Oh but wait

What if there's broken glass on the ground ?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Eyes open wide, looking at the heavens with a tear in my eye.
Yes there's love if you want it, don't sound like a sonnet.

Gezere
7/30/2003 10:14am,
BAH Broken Glass!!!! Sissy. With Emin's anti-grappling tapes I've learned to deal with fighting a grappler in molten lava!!!!

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
THE TRUE FIST OF THE NORTHSTAR!!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

SLJ
7/30/2003 10:22am,
Damn it!

I was holding off starting work on my new "Anti-Anti-Grappling" but now I have no choice.

I'll have to be quick though, I've heard Emin's already thinking about the marketing for his "Anti-Anti-Anti-Grappling" to combat my "Anti-Anti-Grappling".

He's a sly one.



-----------------------------------------------------------
Eyes open wide, looking at the heavens with a tear in my eye.
Yes there's love if you want it, don't sound like a sonnet.

Fisting Kittens
7/30/2003 11:19am,
"going for a leg submission from your opponents gaurd is not really a high risk. If you fub it you most likely will be put back into your opponents gaurd as you both try to regain position."

I'll agree with that.



---------
I have discovered the true essence of Bullshido: To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamentation of their women.
In short: to flame.

mikus
7/30/2003 12:32pm,
What leglock is easiest from inside someone's guard? Heel hook? A heel hook is the only leg lock I "know" (I'm sure I couldn't pull it off, I just know how to do it).

I'm gonna fight, fight, fight, fight, fight and destruct the world.

Edited by - mikus on July 30 2003 17:50:11

Blad3
7/30/2003 12:35pm,
armbar or choke yes. Maybe a foot lock.

Asia knows ALL (well most <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>).....

"If you don't know how to Grapple/Wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" - David Tank Abbott. (http://www.bisons.net/bisons/training/necessity_of_competition.html)