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Goju - Joe
12/05/2006 11:22pm,
So I am having a fun time with Cracky and I thought I would like to share it with his legions of fans.

The debate is taking place in the BJJ vs Wrestling for takedown thread.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48625

The argument starts here after I make this highly controversial statement in post #5 #

Where I say
Look up CSW - Combat Submission Wrestling -if you want a good mix By this I mean a good mix of BJJ and wrestling

Cracky chimes in wisely here at post #14


Combat Submission Wrestling is watered down BJJ combined with watered down Wrestling and some watered down Judo, IMO.

If you want to be a good grappler, you should do BJJ for submissions, free/folkstyle wrestling for shoots/sprawls, and Judo for throws.

Which I respond to in post #18


Now you're talking out of your ass.

First of all CSW isn't just about grappling. It's about submission grappling with strikes. Basically MMA. And it addresses things that neither BJJ nor Judo even touch on.

Anyways at some point Shuma jumps in and accuses me of saying that BJJ doesn’t deal with striking and takedowns to which I basically respons sure it does but CSW does better as it spends a lot more time on that.

Whatever

Cracky’s post #36


Erik Paulson is what belt in BJJ?

Cracky’s about to serve … me…oh.boy…he’s really about to make a telling point.

My response


Black belt

http://erikpaulson.com/index.php?opt...id=30&Itemid=2

What's your point?

OH NOSE!!!!!!!!

Of course he quickly realizes the big flaw and responds # 41


He got his black in August of this year. He's been teaching CSW for years, so that means he's been teaching grappling at a less than stellar level during that time.

[email protected] being owned. Stop nut riding.

My response in #43


Yes because a 2 X shooto champion probably knew nothing about grappling for MMA.

ONCE AGAIN CSW is NOT a pure grappling martial art like BJJ or catch wrestling or whatever.

How many world champions have there been who haven't been BJJ black belts?

Now here I kick myself for missing the fact the Paulson actually started training in LA in Rorions’s garage in 1988 and not only has been doing BJJ for 18 years but was one of the pioneers in using it in MMA / shooto matches.

Anyways I fooked up here so onwards we go, argue some points back and forth until I say this post #47


No actually this thread is about TAKEDOWNS BJJ VS wrestling.

CSW has better takedowns than BJJ.

WHY? Because CSW uses striking to set up the takedowns in it's techniques and training.

I.E you train and practice in an alive manner with 16 ounce gloves to overwhelm someone with a combo to set up either the double or single leg.

When do you ever do that in a typical BJJ class? Or even wrestling?

Saying it's watered down is completely missing the point

This concept of setting up a takedown (MMA 101) with striking is so alien to Cracky’s amazing MA experience he jumps all over me with this lovely rebuttal in post #48


Better takedowns through striking? What? Troll? Shut the **** up. Shuma already owned you on your false dichotomies...

Here I respond in post #50


You're right no one sets up takedowns with strikes.

Never happens.

Not once in any MMA match

Not Royce faking a straight leg kick into a shoot.

Nor Matt Hughes throwing towards the head to get people to bring their arms up so he can get his underhooks in and cross body lock.

There's no need to ever practice that

You really pawned me there.

Of course Shuma jumps in and ( I paraphrase.) That I owned myself by using Royce as an example because that was pure BJJ.

I point out in post # 53 that, I never said CSW was superior to BJJ or that BJJ didn’t use strikes to set up take downs, But that CSW focuses on it a lot more and better. And that Gracie JJ also used heel kicks from the guard and hair pulling and most BJJ places don’t train that way anyways.

But whatever

By the way if anyone is wondering about setting up takedowns with strikes and practicing them with 16 ounce gloves you can watch a bit of Erik’s stuff here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtwzQO876Y

So now we get to Cracky’s end game

Post # 64


Last UFC champ to do CSW? Last Pride champ? That's what I thought.

Yikes the UFC Pride gambit what ever shall I do????????? IYEEEEEEEEEEEEE

# 64


Owning you is not fun anymore. It's too easy

Last UFC Champ to do CSW --------

Sean Sherk

Pride I don't follow as much and he's not a champ yet but may be one day ------

Josh Barnet

OH NOSE!!!!!!! X 100,000,000

Of course Cracky’s not done yet he’s going to have a dangerous rebuttal now.


Sherk's wrestling...obviously not the reason he wins, it's the CSW!

As for Barnett, you fucking queer, he has not been champion of anything since he started training with Paulson.

I edited out the “this guy beat this guy who beat Erik” MMA math logic which is so obviously dumb I’ll ignore as this is not Sherdog.

Re: Sherk’s Wrestling ---- 1995 called and wants you back. Time to break out your power ranger underroos. Wrestling alone hasn’t dominated on it’s own in a LOOOONG. time your argument is dumb and you know it.

Re: Barnet; He just beat Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and his only losses are to Cro Cop and Pedro Rizzo. There’s only two reasons he’s not Pride Heavy Weight Champion. Cro Cop and Fedor.

So I guess he’s only the #3 heavy weight on the planet. You really, really got me on that one. OUCHHHH

Anyhoo I have enjoyed pawning Cracky over and over again and hope to keep doing so as it is becoming a favourite hobby of mine. Thought I would just share.

PS.

CSW and BJJ go hand in hand and work brilliantly together as they focus on different things.

PPS

CRACKY …..HEAD….TOILET…..NOW!!!

Epicurus
12/05/2006 11:33pm,
Well, I don't follow all this, but is seems plausible from what you wrote here that an MMA-style art would have better takedowns than pure BJJ. And to whoever said you can't improve your takedown by setting it up with strikes...

What the **** are you smoking and can I have some?

My takedowns are atrocious, which ironically makes me a perfect poster-boy: I can't take someone down for **** with a double or single-leg if I just throw one out (or even if I slip a punch and try one), BUT, if I throw three or four straight punches to the head, most people's hands go up and they pay attention to my punches, and start defending, which allows me to drop levels and take them down (or just get underhooks) without getting sprawled into next week. So I'd say that if you accept my case generalizes to other people's MMA as well, you can "improve" your takedown by using some strikes.

Bas Rutten, people.

pauli
12/05/2006 11:37pm,
so, you argued with cracky and shuma, and, what? you want us to be proud?

patfromlogan
12/05/2006 11:39pm,
So I am having a fun time with Cracky and I thought I would like to share it with his legions of fans.

The debate is taking place in the BJJ vs Wrestling for takedown thread.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48625

The argument starts here after I make this highly controversial statement in post #5 #

Where I say By this I mean a good mix of BJJ and wrestling

Cracky chimes in wisely here at post #14



Which I respond to in post #18



Anyways at some point Shuma jumps in and accuses me of saying that BJJ doesn’t deal with striking and takedowns to which I basically respons sure it does but CSW does better as it spends a lot more time on that.

Whatever

Cracky’s post #36



Cracky’s about to serve … me…oh.boy…he’s really about to make a telling point.

My response



OH NOSE!!!!!!!!

Of course he quickly realizes the big flaw and responds # 41



My response in #43



Now here I kick myself for missing the fact the Paulson actually started training in LA in Rorions’s garage in 1988 and not only has been doing BJJ for 18 years but was one of the pioneers in using it in MMA / shooto matches.

Anyways I fooked up here so onwards we go, argue some points back and forth until I say this post #47



This concept of setting up a takedown (MMA 101) with striking is so alien to Cracky’s amazing MA experience he jumps all over me with this lovely rebuttal in post #48



Here I respond in post #50



Of course Shuma jumps in and ( I paraphrase.) That I owned myself by using Royce as an example because that was pure BJJ.

I point out in post # 53 that, I never said CSW was superior to BJJ or that BJJ didn’t use strikes to set up take downs, But that CSW focuses on it a lot more and better. And that Gracie JJ also used heel kicks from the guard and hair pulling and most BJJ places don’t train that way anyways.

But whatever

By the way if anyone is wondering about setting up takedowns with strikes and practicing them with 16 ounce gloves you can watch a bit of Erik’s stuff here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtwzQO876Y

So now we get to Cracky’s end game

Post # 64



Yikes the UFC Pride gambit what ever shall I do????????? IYEEEEEEEEEEEEE

# 64



OH NOSE!!!!!!! X 100,000,000

Of course Cracky’s not done yet he’s going to have a dangerous rebuttal now.



I edited out the “this guy beat this guy who beat Erik” MMA math logic which is so obviously dumb I’ll ignore as this is not Sherdog.

Re: Sherk’s Wrestling ---- 1995 called and wants you back. Time to break out your power ranger underroos. Wrestling alone hasn’t dominated on it’s own in a LOOOONG. time your argument is dumb and you know it.

Re: Barnet; He just beat Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and his only losses are to Cro Cop and Pedro Rizzo. There’s only two reasons he’s not Pride Heavy Weight Champion. Cro Cop and Fedor.

So I guess he’s only the #3 heavy weight on the planet. You really, really got me on that one. OUCHHHH

Anyhoo I have enjoyed pawning Cracky over and over again and hope to keep doing so as it is becoming a favourite hobby of mine. Thought I would just share.

PS.

CSW and BJJ go hand in hand and work brilliantly together as they focus on different things.

PPS

CRACKY …..HEAD….TOILET…..NOW!!!

As my sainted mother used to say, "If that is all you have to worry about, you are blessed indeed."

plasma
12/05/2006 11:40pm,
so, you argued with cracky and shuma, and, what? you want us to be proud?



That was exactly, what I as thinking.

Roidie McDouchebag
12/06/2006 12:15am,
BJJ>CSW in grappling

You can't deny it, no matter how hard you try.

Goju - Joe
12/06/2006 12:22am,
Where did I ever state CSW > BJJ in grappling?

CSW is > BJJ in MMA. Because that's what it focuses on.

BJJ > CSW in grappling because that's what it focuses on.

if you do BJJ and want to get into MMA CSW is excellent for taking those skills and appling them for the cage or ring.

The irony of this mini and unimportant **** fest. Is that for someone like you who apparently has a background in Japanese pro wrestling, submission wrestling and leg locks CSW is tailor made. And if you ever left your island retreat and did good CSW with a real CSW instructor you would probably become it's most annoying nut hugger

porch
12/06/2006 12:28am,
tl;dr

Stick
12/06/2006 12:28am,
tl;dr

Roidie McDouchebag
12/06/2006 12:33am,
Where did I ever state CSW > BJJ in grappling?


In the thread you linked to, over and over again.

DayOfTheJackass
12/06/2006 12:34am,
I read it liked it.

meng_mao
12/06/2006 12:35am,
Just let it go, Joe. Some people are just this way.

Emevas
12/06/2006 12:46am,
By creating this topic, you have won the argument and lost at life.

Goju - Joe
12/06/2006 12:49am,
By creating this topic, you have won the argument and lost at life.


That's all that really matters

HearWa
12/06/2006 2:36am,
I'm going to side with the guy who will potentially pwn me at a throwdown some day and say that Cracky McSlugHoot is an idiot.

King Sleepless
12/06/2006 2:43am,
KNEE GROW PLEASE!

If you want ownage of Senior engineer of the USS Enterprise, all you have to do is get him to AIM you when he's high. He tells you EVERYTHING. I mean EVERYTHING.