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DevonHartigan
12/03/2006 5:58pm,
Well I just once and for all wanted to get rid of the lethal-blow-to-the-nosebone myth, after seeing that people actually still believe this to be true, in the "Help me end this [email protected]$king argument about 'deadly' vital point striking" -thread. And I'm only talking about the myth that, a blow to the nosebone can cause the nosebone to break loose and rocket up into your brain, because any blow to the head might be lethal under specific circumstances.
This thread's objective is only to enlighten those of you that believe everything they see on tv(i.e. those of you that probably has seen "The Last Boyscout" one time to many - and don't get me wrong, Bruce Willis rocks!). The rest of you can pat yourself on the head.

Some of you might say; "Dude, I've heard of this bloke who got kicked in the nose who freaking died because his nosebone got jammed up into his brain!". Well, then I'll say; "Get real retard! It was the blow to the head that killed him, and not the nosebone that got shoved up into his brain part!".
You can of course die if you stick something long, sharp, and pointy up your nose, because there is a very thin plate that seperates the brain from the nose, but then I would just suggest that you'd stop playing with your chopsticks. Anyhow...

Here is probably the best article on the subject I could find after 5 min of googeling: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=511
(If you feel that the source or article is untrustworthy or any anything like that, then do some research of your own bitch!)

P.S. I hope this post isn't too aggresive for a firsttimer noobie-thread.

TKD Black Belt
12/03/2006 6:17pm,
I totally disagree I mean one blow to the nose * Franklin vs Silva * could cause instant * Silva vs Jackson * death. I mean the sheer force of a knee to the head * Silva vs Sakaraba * wherein it would connect with the head * Shamrock vs Kimo * in and on the nose would cause * Yamamoto vs Miyata * damage so significant that if death was not the immediate result * Wanderlei vs Anyone * it would occur shortly thereafter!

TKD

Torakaka
12/03/2006 6:18pm,
What would've been easier is just posting a picture of a human skull, pointing out that

1.) there is no "nose bone"

and

2.) even if there were, your brain is entirely encased in your cranium, one of the hardest bones in the body.

Rock Ape
12/03/2006 6:22pm,
Voila

http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/physiognomy/media/cranium_front.jpg

DevonHartigan
12/03/2006 6:28pm,
I totally disagree I mean one blow to the nose * Franklin vs Silva * could cause instant * Silva vs Jackson * death. I mean the sheer force of a knee to the head * Silva vs Sakaraba * wherein it would connect with the head * Shamrock vs Kimo * in and on the nose would cause * Yamamoto vs Miyata * damage so significant that if death was not the immediate result * Wanderlei vs Anyone * it would occur shortly thereafter!

TKD
OMG Lol. I hope you are being ironic and me just not picking up on it! Did you even bother to read the whole thing. I totally agree that a blow to the nose can kill, but it wouldn't be because of the blow to nose, it would be because of the nose being a part of your head and thereby a blow to your head. I'm contesting the part of the nosebone getting shoved up into your brain part.

To Kidspatula, yeah I actually thought of doing that, but I thought it was going overkill on the thread.

Askari
12/03/2006 6:31pm,
Devon,

Just to bring you in on the irony, everyone that TKD BB listed lived through the experience.

There is a "Nasal Bone" though, and I am sure if it was hit hard enough (Say with a sledghammer or an automobile) it could break in such a way as to kill someone. However the palm strike at a certain angle version? If there was a pre-existing condition perhaps.

TKD Black Belt
12/03/2006 6:33pm,
OMG Lol. I hope you are being ironic and me just not picking up on it! Did you even bother to read the whole thing. I totally agree that a blow to the nose can kill, but it wouldn't be because of the blow to nose, it would be because of the nose being a part of your head and thereby a blow to your head. I'm contesting the part of the nosebone getting shoved up into your brain part.

To Kidspatula, yeah I actually thought of doing that, but I thought it was going overkill on the thread.

I've just had this argument with a few people (note: Few = Far to many to remember) and I just happen to have these and multiple other examples off the top of my head to point out what a flawed statement this is. You can also look to hockey as an additional source of examples. Think how many goalies would have been killed (prior to masks by the way) or guys who play without face shields? Look at early football or even look to English PL football. Way too many examples exist to debunk the living death (reference back to Kenny) out of this argument.

TKD

DevonHartigan
12/03/2006 6:41pm,
Devon,

Just to bring you in on the irony, everyone that TKD BB listed lived through the experience.

Geez I'm so incredibly slow, looks like I really wasn't picking up on the irony. Nice way of proving your point TKD BB.:headbang:

Rock Ape
12/03/2006 6:45pm,
Considering the brain sits within the cranial cavity which is essentially a shelf, I doubt the nasal bone would be capable of penetrating the cavity, itís a myth and a dumb fucking one at that


http://web.sc.itc.keio.ac.jp/anatomy/anatomy/anatomy1b3-5.jpg

BSDaemon
12/03/2006 7:19pm,
Lets assume, for the sake of contradiction, that the nose bone could be broken to a point where it could protrude into the brain. Would that cause death? Look at the case of Phineas Gage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage), who had a 1.25 inch diameter iron pole shot through the front of his brain and survived. Therefore a tiny bone invading the same region of the brain is not going to cause the necessary trauma to instantly kill you.

Shinshoryu
12/03/2006 7:33pm,
What would've been easier is just posting a picture of a human skull, pointing out that

1.) there is no "nose bone"

Sorry but, yes there is. There are two of them actually, very well articulated so most people consider them just one. The thing is that it is not like a spear in the middle of your nose that you can push into your brain with a strike, instead, it looks more like a house roof. Now, try to imagine pushing a house roof into anything...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Gray852.png



2.) even if there were, your brain is entirely encased in your cranium, one of the hardest bones in the body.

The skull is more than just one bone, but you are right, as whole is pretty damn hard. Although one of its weak points (weak compared to other parts of the skull) is precisely above the the nasal bone, where the frontal sinus is located (just an air space). Still, imagine pushing a house roof against anything, and even if you could, the nasal bone is barely larger than the frontal bone thickness at the place where it is located.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Gray194.png

TKD Black Belt
12/03/2006 7:42pm,
Further to this, and its been a while so forgive me, doesn't the Nasal Bone require a direct strike (perpendicular to the face) to break? I seem to remember that a glancing blow (see upward palm strike everyone keeps citing in this myth) would most likely cause soft tissue damage as opposed to fractures of the face.

Glancing blows to the face that result in breaks are usually breaks of the jaw (mandible) or orbital bones.

Then again its been a while so I might be off a little.

TKD

http://leaguefreak.playiirl.com/Robbie_ODavis.jpg

I figured everyone else was posting pics....

gr81disp
12/03/2006 7:57pm,
I have heard it theorized that if the nose was first broken, then hit, it would kill them. However, personally, although an interesting theory, I severely doubt it.

rw4th
12/03/2006 8:13pm,
I have heard it theorized that if the nose was first broken, then hit, it would kill them. However, personally, although an interesting theory, I severely doubt it.

Exactly, the myth as I have heard it requires first a downwards blow to break the nose, then an upwards blow to drive the bone into the brain.

It sounded like bullshit the first time heard it, and still does now.

Shinshoryu
12/03/2006 8:50pm,
Further to this, and its been a while so forgive me, doesn't the Nasal Bone require a direct strike (perpendicular to the face) to break? I seem to remember that a glancing blow (see upward palm strike everyone keeps citing in this myth) would most likely cause soft tissue damage as opposed to fractures of the face.

Glancing blows to the face that result in breaks are usually breaks of the jaw (mandible) or orbital bones.

Then again its been a while so I might be off a little.

TKD

Perpendicular to the lateral surface of the nose would probably be more appropriate. In this way you could (provided enough force), get a nice bilateral nasal bone fracture with septum (the bones that say "ethmoid" and "vomer" in the 2nd picture) fracture and dislocation, all in one really cool combo, just like the pic you posted.

Askari
12/03/2006 8:54pm,
Uber Geek Batman moment as a time out.

in Legends of The Dark Knight #62, Bruce Wayne identifies the Leopard Blow more specifically as a move in which one uses the heel of the palm to drive the "nasal bones" into the brain (this ability is a common urban legend in the martial arts). In the Richard Dragon miniseries, however, the Leopard Blow is clearly depicted, both in the art and narration, as a maneuver wherein one first draws the hand back and above the head, and then thrusts it forward with the fingers straightened, driving them through the skull and brain. Both Batman and Richard Dragon have learned the Leopard Blow from Shiva, but choose not to use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Shiva
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Batgirlshiva.png/250px-Batgirlshiva.png