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dunlap
9/04/2002 12:28pm,
Enough is Enough

I believe exposing frauds is a good thing as the martial art consumer has very little protection.. I think the line needs to be drawn on personal attacks though. Trying to get to the truth and asking direct questions or being skeptical of bizarre claims of ability are very understandable. After reading the site I got a kick out of most of the articles and found them reasonable.

The articles about both Mike Malandra and Billy Stevens were personal attacks not attempts to get to the truth or expose fraud. No questions were asked no “facts” were disputed no lies exposed.

I live and teach a few miles from each of these schools and neither qualifies as a McDojo and neither is a fraud. I know both Malandra’s very well and have met Billy on several occasions. People I know and have worked out with know Billy and he is what he says he is and does what he says he does. Now onto the Malandra’s I consider both to be good friends and have trained with them on many occasions. I have enormous respect for Don ( Mike’s father) he defiantly has trained for over forty years and is a very skilled martial artist. I know Don is a black belt in Judo and Tae Kwon Do and I think Ju Jutsu. Don’s former Partner Lester is also a lifelong practioner and was a former Ranger and NYC cop. I have been told by both Don and Lester that Mushin –Do is their philosophy on life and fighting applied to their Martial background. Mike Malandra is a skilled Martial artist who has trained I know has trained under his father and several other skilled teachers for most of his life. I know he is active in the dare program and other programs around the town of Suffern and would not doubt any of the statements he made on his site or this site at all. The facts are that both the Malandra,s are skilled martial artists and teachers. I have been to their school and it is NOT a Mcdojo hell they do not even have contracts and it is not unusual to see one of their students testing for black belt after 5 or 6 years of training.


Mike and his friend/attorney Vinny could have handled this much better here. I think part of the problem is a misunderstanding of the internet and the amount of badmouthing that goes on. The issue they spoke of was one where someone sent emails and I think letters out slandering him and made statements that were false and libelous. Like any one else they are human and nobody likes to see malicious things written about themselves. We can all tend to overreact when someone insults us and those we care about. It seems the reaction has caused most of the outcry. When reading the post and article it really did not garner much interest compared to the others as most people saw both the post about Mike and the one about Billy for what they were. Desperate attempts to hurt and or discredit someone by a person with a very personal agenda.

Remember if the goal of this site is to expose fraud and people just out to make a buck then the posts and articles that are nothing more than personal attacks are at odds with this goal as it diminishes the credibility of the site itself. This site can either be a great asset to those interested in the martial arts and the truth or it can become a playground for disgruntled children. The responsibility is with those that post to decide what they want it to be. I am sure most legitimate martial artists are more than willing to answer reasonable questions and not fly off the handle. I think it is the lead in with insults that always causes the uproar

Phil Dunlap

DJ Coldfusion
9/04/2002 1:08pm,
Phil,

Anyone who talks the smack Malandra and "Vinny" talk and then demand respect without opening up a conversation on the subject don't deserve respect.

I personally read through Malandra's site after the original post and was looking for the McDojo in it . . . I didn't find any. Most of the forum either laughed at Read Headed Fraud's post (he was the original poster) as a poorly written attempt at humor from an obviously disgruntled ex-associate of some type and then dismissed the comments (which "Vincey" and Malandra should have done) or we questioned the original poster concerning the foundation for his claim that Malandra was McDojo material.

What we got in return was an attack, a horse **** libel claim, and an insecure martial artist blubbering insults concerning our manhood (or lack there of to be exact).

The mistake Malandra and Vincey made was attacking the Forum when they should have gone after the original poster and approached the interaction with the rest of the forum as an opportunity to expose Malandra's positive traits to the forum (which might have gotten him a student or two). But he was either too lazy or too dim-witted to accept his interactions here as an opportunity, my vote is on too dim-witted.

Quite honestly, I hope he rots in a vat of his own waste. I, and I believe most people on this forum, have no patience for people who can't discuss a problem. There may be some whack jobs here, but most of us are here to make a positive contribution to the site and the martial arts community as a whole . . . strange, Malandra doesn't seem to share that goal.

DJ Coldfusion
9/04/2002 1:15pm,
Phil,

Concerning your final paragraph . . .

The site and its members generally ignore or ask for backup information on posts like the one concerning Mr. Malandra. It is a tool and like all tools it may be mis-used from time to time; however, in the interest of free speech the admins have decided to give the posters as much rope as they would like with too hang themselves with. Posters need to back themselves up or they probably will be attacked (or at least questioned) as frauds.

Mr. Malandra attacked the entire forum without any true provocation. He shot dropped grenades into a crowd when he only wanted a single individual, so why shouldn't the crowd get pissed off?

Now, Mr. Malandra hasn't backed himself up. He just decided it would be better to make some un-traceable claims and call everyone names. It was childish, moronic, dim-witted, and flat-out unprofessional. He deserves what he got in return and what is yet to come.

dunlap
9/04/2002 1:28pm,
DJ

I agrree it seems the initial reaction was kind of what the hell by people here

I also do not disagree with you that Vince flew off the handle and reacted poorly and then Mike reacted to the reaction and it could have been handled a lot better.

It's kind of funny though I know Mike and happen to have met Vinny and both are actually really nice guys and I thought to myself what the hell are they doing.

Insulting the whole forum for one person's action was dumb. As I said a lot of people have a tendency to over react becuse of mis-understanding the internet.

Someone emails you an isult someone else posted you get haeted and do something you later regret

dunlap
9/04/2002 1:33pm,
By the way DJ I understand exactly where you are coming from and would probably react the same way you are. I understand why someone would react to both his and Vinny's posts by voicing negative opinions.

Your All Tools
9/04/2002 1:59pm,
dunlap,

It is nice to see that you are defending your friend. No offense, but since you are vouching for him and giving him approval of being a non mcdojo, what do YOU do?

What is your training experience, rank, and who taught you?

With all fairness, you are his friend defending him. I would defend my friends as I am sure most others would also do.

Now that Malandra stated his laundry list of credentials we are waiting for him to answer his claims. I have posted questions for him. Maybe since you know him so well, you can answer them for him, so he doesn't explode with another schizophrenic egotiscal post attacking us all again.

This is what has been asked:

What did your father teach you? You did not list his art. Other than TKD which everyone in the world seems to have a black belt in, please advise who taught you Jiu-Jitsu & Judo for the reason that they are the only two credible arts that you listed. You state that you codeveloped Mushin Do; where is this art recognized, and how did you determine to promote yourself to 5th degree black belt?

RAP is another system that you "developed".
Where is this system taught, for you must excuse me, because I have never heard of it.

Thank you for your help in cleaning up your friends mistake.

Your All Tools

Michael
9/04/2002 2:06pm,
aaaaaah, I agree with cold fusion

nuf said

dunlap
9/04/2002 2:29pm,
Tool would that be Mr. Tool , mrs. Tool or are you just plain A tool

I am not cleaning up for or defending anyone just stating MY OPINION just like anyone else.

Sorry but I really do not know anything about the list of credentials nor do I feel the need to validate them.

My experience is that I have trained in the Kachin style of Burmese arts most of my life, have no rank, and have been in the ring a few times.

I am not going to get involved in arguing over someone elses credentials it’s not my thing I just wanted to state my opinion and experience with the Malandras.

DJ Coldfusion
9/04/2002 2:45pm,
Vincey, Malandra, and dunlap are all the same troll.

dunlap
9/04/2002 2:50pm,
Dj

You just lost me.

I am sorry but the guys handle is your all tools I have to be allowed to have a little fun with that.

I do not see why I would be a troll I state my opinion. I have never trained under the malandras and have never thought to ask who there teachers were.

Your All Tools
9/04/2002 2:51pm,
Mr. Tool is fine. Now that we got that out of the way now its your turn, Is it Mr. Dunlap, Mrs Dunlap, or could you be Malandra posting under what would now be his 3rd identity. So you have to excuse me for asking if this "dunlap" person even exists.

You obviously know about the list of credentials because you have defended them in your above post, I quote you "I know he is active in the dare program and other programs around the town of Suffern and would not doubt any of the statements he made on his site or this site at all"-------That is YOUR quote.

I am in no way "calling you out" I just wanted to be educated on your background and see the validity of your claims to defend Malandra & Stevens. What makes you an expert?

You also state in your above quote the following"I live and teach a few miles from each of these schools and neither qualifies as a McDojo and neither is a fraud."

So let me get this straight, you vouch for Malandra and Stevens, train other people, have no rank and you expect us to change our opinion?

Explain that one to me.

Mr. Your All Tools

dunlap
9/04/2002 3:07pm,
Ok Mr your all tools

I never said you should change your opinion I just stated mine. It is Phil Dunlap I prefer Phil to Mr or Mrs.. I am a real person last I checked.

I know for a fact he is active in the Dare program because I know the Suffern Dare officer and I live in the next town over and have seen it in the paper. I know he was involved in the chamber of commerce and the mayors electoral campaign again in the newspapers. I do not doubt him again my OPINION as I have found him to be honest.

I did not think you were calling me out and never claimed to be an expert in anything.

I did not vouch for them merly stated my opinion, if you pick up martial arts of the world an encyclopedia by Thomas Green you will find many obscure arts with no rank system including the Kachin style. yes I do train people not in the typical martial art school type of way though I also do free seminars a few times a year.

I said the do not qualify as a Mcdojo and I think the fact that Mike's school is a month to month membership makes my point for me in MY OPINION Mc Dojo rule #1 is must have yearly contracts.

Your All Tools
9/04/2002 3:16pm,
Phil,

Thank you for the adult response. You must not be Malandra, because he would have either insulted me or exploded by now.

Please post more info on your free seminars. I would like to hear more about this style. I have never heard of it.

Enjoyed the exchange with you, maybe you can ask Malandra to answer the questions that were posted.

Mr. Your All Tools

Phrost
9/04/2002 3:39pm,
Actually, to set the record straight, nobody has ever listed his school as a McDojo because it's not in the links section for people to vote on as far as I know.

As it stands, the issue was brought up by an anonymous party who apparently didn't like Mr. Malandra for whatever reasons.

The fact that he participates in the DARE program is commendable, and month-to-month rates definitely are not the normal marks of a McDojo.

Personally, I feel that participation on this website by martial arts instructors who have had their schools brought up is not only a good thing, but absolutely necessary and encouraged, in the spirit of rooting out the truth of a situation.

"The articles about both Mike Malandra and Billy Stevens were personal attacks not attempts to get to the truth or expose fraud. No questions were asked no “facts” were disputed no lies exposed."

After reading the post I absolutely agree, which is one of the reasons why I was baffled by any mention of defamation, simply because the offending post was nothing more than a bad parody attempt.

In the ideal situation, a martial artist will reply directly to the issue. Originally this website was designed to simply present arguments against people who were, to say the least, questionable, but we realized that the purpose it serves would be better served by allowing unfettered discussion trough a fully interactive forum-type website.

We honestly hope in the future that complaints against individuals aren't met with similar hostility (regardless of the way they're presented by the users) but instead discussed in a the constructive spirit we've been working to establish here for a while now.

Berserk411
9/04/2002 4:02pm,
what a pointless waste of energy this thread was.

Michael
9/04/2002 4:11pm,
You know on that note Phrost why is it I find Mcdojo's on legitimate links section.