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youtube
10/22/2006 6:41pm,
thats right, 120$ a month for 1-2 30-minute classes a week as 12 month program. NO SPARRING

this is a BJJ school in my area. if that aint Mcdojo, I don't know what is.

the place offers solid teaching, but that **** is just way too high.

here is the website www.tsdefense.com (http://www.tsdefense.com)

plasma
10/22/2006 6:46pm,
thats right, 120$ a month for 1-2 30-minute classes a week as 12 month program. NO SPARRING

this is a BJJ school in my area. if that aint Mcdojo, I don't know what is.

the place offers solid teaching, but that **** is just way too high.

here is the website www.tsdefense.com (http://www.tsdefense.com)
BJJ with no sparring? Its begins.

Doctor X
10/22/2006 6:49pm,
Posting . . . and YOU (albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php). . . .

--J.D.

Iscariot
10/22/2006 6:50pm,
thats right, 120$ a month for 1-2 30-minute classes a week as 12 month program. NO SPARRING

this is a BJJ school in my area. if that aint Mcdojo, I don't know what is.

the place offers solid teaching, but that **** is just way too high.

here is the website www.tsdefense.com (http://www.tsdefense.com)
The wonderful thing about BJJ is that its grades can easily be verified. Better men than me will check if he really did get, as he claims, his BB in BJJ under Carlos Machado.

youtube
10/22/2006 7:09pm,
does being a black belt under carlos machado validate the pricing?

DCS
10/22/2006 7:10pm,
It seems Orlando is a legit black belt:
http://austinjiujitsu.com/budo/bjj/results/2003_Dallas_open.html
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:UX_v3KChHNIJ:onthemat.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_BJJ_Black_Belts+%22Orlando+Waugh%22&hl=es&gl=es&ct=clnk&cd=20

But the price of classes and the "NO SPARRING"... sounds Mccojoish.

Teh El Macho
10/22/2006 7:14pm,
I had a similar experience with the Popovitch's in Ft. Lauderdale. Pablo Popovitch is a monster. He knows his ****, and the other guys that work with him at his school. Plus he is a very nice fellow, the whole bunch of them.

Having said that, I got pretty dissilusioned by the contract, which I signed without first shopping around. I was paying $100 a month (and like $100+ or something, can't remember.) I could only train twice a week, 30 minutes a session. Quick, murderous "warm up" followed by 20 minutes drills of two techniques, plus very specific Q&As. But that was about it.

Those with the same similar contracts I had (the basic plan) would have to leave after 30 minutes, while the more "seniors" would continue for a while followed by sparring. Finally I got my first stripe, and I asked if and when I could train more. That's when I was told of the "better" plan (unlimited training, classes every morning and night, including sparring and seminars). All that for $200 a month for 36 months and $300 down payment.

And that's when I left. I won't knock the talent and quality of teaching at that school, but the contract plans sucked ass, specially the one I started for $100 a month with no sparring.


So I wouldn't be surprised if the same occurs at other locations, independently of the quality of teaching.

Epicurus
10/22/2006 7:16pm,
BJJ with no sparring? Its begins.

Right out of my mouth. Take that BJJ! Your success will drag you down into the morass that has engulfed the rest of the martial arts world.

And so began... the dark ages of groundfighting.

Teh El Macho
10/22/2006 7:23pm,
does being a black belt under carlos machado validate the pricing?**** No. And in particular, **** NO if there are other schools around with better plans.

I'm currently training at a school owned by Carlos Rollyson, 7th BB in BJJ (the only grandmaster in Florida AFAIK), and a 2nd degree in Judo. This professor is incredibly accessible, nice, knowledgeable and just fucking great to train with. His classes are also lead by high quality brown and black belts.

There are several blackbelts at this school who are also high ranking judoka, and there is a BJJ purple belt and BB judoka who comes to teach the standup (and I've been told, the school also brings wrestlers from time to time to take over the class to teach standup/clinch). All of this gi and no-gi.

Anyways, more to the point, Mr. Rollyson charges $114 a month for unlimited access to classes 5 days, a week (at night and at 11am) including 30 to 60 minutes of sparring (or as long as people can/want to roll), and open mat for the entire Saturday morning.

If Mr. Rollyson, a 7th degree BJJ blackbelt and a Judo nidan, if he doesn't charge $120 with the exclusion of sparring, I don't see why people with lesser credentials should (not knocking people's ass-kicking abilities, but you get my point.)

I guess people and schools could charge that amount for so little; bizness is bizness. It's up to people to swallow the bait. :new_shock

youtube
10/22/2006 7:24pm,
I had a similar experience with the Popovitch's in Ft. Lauderdale. Pablo Popovitch is a monster. He knows his ****, and the other guys that work with him at his school. Plus he is a very nice fellow, the whole bunch of them.

Having said that, I got pretty dissilusioned by the contract, which I signed without first shopping around. I was paying $100 a month (and like $100+ or something, can't remember.) I could only train twice a week, 30 minutes a session. Quick, murderous "warm up" followed by 20 minutes drills of two techniques, plus very specific Q&As. But that was about it.

Those with the same similar contracts I had (the basic plan) would have to leave after 30 minutes, while the more "seniors" would continue for a while followed by sparring. Finally I got my first stripe, and I asked if and when I could train more. That's when I was told of the "better" plan (unlimited training, classes every morning and night, including sparring and seminars). All that for $200 a month for 36 months and $300 down payment.

And that's when I left. I won't knock the talent and quality of teaching at that school, but the contract plans sucked ass, specially the one I started for $100 a month with no sparring.


So I wouldn't be surprised if the same occurs at other locations, independently of the quality of teaching.

YES! this is what I was shown.

120$ plus a 200$ startup fee. (basic plan)

I than asked her if there was any sparring involved.

sparring would be in the Basic+ plan. in which there is 15 minutes added at the end of class for sparring and additional questions. this would be "only" 150$ a month.

I am used to training with my buddies (one of which is a BJJ blue belt) in the garage for at least 2 hours. I know I am in need of an actual instructor, but I am a freakin college student for crying out loud!

Teh El Macho
10/22/2006 7:32pm,
Dude, shop around. If there was nothing else available and you were a highly paid professional with $$$ to spare, I'd say "**** it, there is nothing else so do it." But you are a college student, so no, don't do it. Keep it (and your wallet) real. As a student, you need to keep your monetary priorities firmly in place.

See if there are other schools, maybe a non-profit/YMCA judo school. You may not get as much ground grappling, but you will learn good quality stuff with a Judo school, and most of them are quite affordable with sparring all the way (usually $60, but sometimes as low as $30, not counting a $50+ fee to register to the USJI or USJA).

Don't sign anything there, at least not until you make sure there are no other options. And in the case you do consider sign up, see if you can take a short contract, 3 months or so. Don't sign your soul and your credit record with a 12+ month contract. BEWARE!!!!

Where are you located? If you give us your zipcode, I'm pretty sure someone may do a quick google-fu and help you out finding other options.

youtube
10/22/2006 7:33pm,
Where does it say NO SPARRING?

I took a trial lesson. there was no sparring. after my trial lesson, I was taken into a room in whick me and a woman in a gi (with a yellow belt on) explained how the classes were to be held.

I told her that I already have participated in a few local tournaments and I am very much interested in going to tournaments. I asked her if there was any sparring involved with the classes I would be signing up for.

she than began to explain the Basic+ plan in which the extend the class 15 minutes after each class for 150$ monthly.

I don't even think that the Basic+ plan even exists, because after my class "bowed out" the instructor immediately went in to teaching the next class. (which was an impressive assortment of different color belts, purple, blues, even a machado brown!)

youtube
10/22/2006 7:36pm,
zipcode is 76014, Travis Lutter's school is also about 20 min. away, but I haven't made the trip out there yet.

note: Lutter is also a Carlos Machado BB, Carlos is pretty much the father of BJJ here in the Lone Star State.

rw4th
10/22/2006 7:40pm,
Ok, I went through the web site, and I see classes 6 days a week, including some Vale Tudo classes.

There's a disconnect between what this guy is saying and what the web site says.

Cough/Cool
10/22/2006 7:43pm,
I would make the trip to Lutter's I like his jits.

I have a feeling that more and more BJJ schools will be doing stuff like this. Super schools will arise with the best of BJJ, karate, kung fu - what ever floats your boat - and there will be good instructors and it will all come with a price $$$.

I don't mind some schools de-emphasizing sparing and focusing on tech; but excluding it is no good. Not a sermon, just some thoughts.

Hannibal
10/22/2006 7:47pm,
It's BJJ. It's a money making McDojo practice.

No sparring + Overpriced training = McDojo and not a good place to train.

Don't train there. It doesn't matter how much you earn or how much disposable income you have, you should not be getting ripped off and you deserve to have quality training for a fair price. If this was a Taekwondo school everyone would be chanting "McDojo". But once again BJJ gets it's special treatment. No way. Look for something else.