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consua
10/16/2006 2:15am,
This is a continuation of the thread "Important - about me" that I started in NewbieTown. Please read over it before posting redundant abuse -- I'm looking for new abuse only.

consua
10/16/2006 2:26am,
For continuity, here's chingythingy's last post in "Important - about me"

Originally Posted by consua
More than this might be found by reading buddhist/zen/taoist literature which appears to be a heavy influence. More experienced people can tell you if this is bullshido or not.

Ding, ding, ding!!!! Bullshido!!!! Not Buddhism, but the crappola that passes for it there. Stop smoking the Capitol Hill grass!!!

Originally Posted by consua
"Soft Boxing at this level becomes almost an absence of self so the self can be fully present, where your hands and feet find their own way to their targets fully powered, balanced and focused without the need to strike or the fear of being hit."

If I had a fighter that was talking like this before their bout, I would definitely pre-call an ambulance, because they are about to get KTFO'd in the first round.


Originally Posted by consua
- if you focus on yourself when fighting then you are lost, because you cannot percieve your opponent
- if you focus on your opponent then you are lost, because you cannot percieve yourself
- by the time you have prepared a strike or throw, it is too late
- by the time you have prepared a counter to a strike or a throw, it is too late

If you focus on this bullshit, you're going to be perceiving stars in your near future.

Originally Posted by consua
Focusing on yourself, on you opponent, on your attack, and on your defense all lead to defeat. So where should your focus be? Where should your ego be?

If you have the time to focus on your ego and all this philosophy, then you're not training hard enough.

Originally Posted by consua
Black belt is the beginning of delusion that you need to rid yourself of, like the 3 in different arts I've obtained.

Black belt is the beginning of delusion that you need to rid yourself of, like the 3 in different arts I've obtained.

Originally Posted by consua
Most of your time before black belt is spent learning moves, strikes, combinations -- it's self focused training. If your internal monologue is like mine it's ("I'm gonna do this move, and I'm gonna do this, and then this...") - it's hard to concentrate on what you opponent is doing. That's fine, because you're learning how to "speak". Once you hit blackbelt, you should be intimately familiar with the "vocabulary". Now that you have the vocabulary, you conversely can "hear" what your opponent is "saying". It's like the difference between listening to someone in a language you don't know and listening to a person in a language you speak fluently.

Once you have a blackbelt, you realize that mostly the belt ranking system is a goal oriented ploy to keep lazy-ass Americans training beyond their 3-6 month attention span of activity. If you're in a good school, you realize that you know next to nothing and need to train harder. If you're in a bad school, the head puffs up and you become more delusionally dangerous.

Originally Posted by consua
Nothing terribly confusing here: at quantum, black belts are expected to able to and willing to teach classes. Also, the idea that teaching something helps you better understand it is nothing new.
I will marginally agree with this as it's a time where you really learn your fundamentals right the next time through teaching others, and fix holes in your game.

Originally Posted by consua
Nothing terribly confusing here: at quantum, black belts are expected to able to and willing to teach classes. Also, the idea that teaching something helps you better understand it is nothing new.


At quantam, black belts are torn between marching in Gay Pride events and spouting off buddhist-sounding bullshit and once a month actually sparring with pads that beginning nutrider bullshido members can enjoy.

Just complying with your wish to shell out the abuse. The sad part about it is the level of truth there is in it.[/quote]

consua
10/16/2006 3:14am,
Ding, ding, ding!!!! Bullshido!!!! Not Buddhism, but the crappola that passes for it there. Stop smoking the Capitol Hill grass!!!
Fair enough, although Master Evans has never claimed she was teaching zen.



If I had a fighter that was talking like this before their bout, I would definitely pre-call an ambulance, because they are about to get KTFO'd in the first round.
Okay, so what if your fighter appeared (and talked) with intense focus on the technical aspects of the fight versus showing signs of fear or pacing and yelling angrily? Who would you want then? The focused fighter or the emotional fighter?


If you focus on this bullshit, you're going to be perceiving stars in your near future.
I perceived stars on Saturday. I've touched on this with Dr. "Motor Control" X previously. With grappling it may be different (no ground fighting until my next belt), but at least on a tactical level it seems that the more mental judgements you can push into your "hindbrain" the quicker (and hence better) you can act and react. Also, the idea is that if you place your focus on only one thing (trying to hit you opponent) then you lessen your ability in some other area (e.g. not getting hit back).




If you have the time to focus on your ego and all this philosophy, then you're not training hard enough.
Probably true, although I don't intend to compete.



Black belt is the beginning of delusion that you need to rid yourself of, like the 3 in different arts I've obtained.

Once you have a blackbelt, you realize that mostly the belt ranking system is a goal oriented ploy to keep lazy-ass Americans training beyond their 3-6 month attention span of activity. If you're in a good school, you realize that you know next to nothing and need to train harder. If you're in a bad school, the head puffs up and you become more delusionally dangerous.
Good points that I will try to keep in mind. I think some of the Quantum blackbelts have been disappointed when they realized that they had not reached martial arts "nirvana"



I will marginally agree with this as it's a time where you really learn your fundamentals right the next time through teaching others, and fix holes in your game.

Good point, although I'm also thinking at that point I may switch to another Martial Art (BJJ).



At quantam, black belts are torn between marching in Gay Pride events and spouting off buddhist-sounding bullshit and once a month actually sparring with pads that beginning nutrider bullshido members can enjoy.
Obviously you didn't check the schedule. MAPI has sparring sessions three times a week, not once per month. Required gear goes down as you go up in belt rank; Master Evans spars with no gear at all. Lest you think this means she goes "soft" I will say that (depending on your intensity level) Master Evans hits hard - I've already mentoned that after a session a couple of weeks ago, I could not close my jaw properly due to bruising.


Just complying with your wish to shell out the abuse. The sad part about it is the level of truth there is in it.
Thank you for honoring me by responding to my post. I appreciate detailed abuse from experienced MA's. I think it's given me tools to better identify the bullshido aspects of Quantum at MAPI.

Gezere
10/16/2006 5:40am,
WTF is QUANTUM and whey should anyone care?

Are you talking Quantum JJ?

alex
10/16/2006 5:55am,
Okay, so what if your fighter appeared (and talked) with intense focus on the technical aspects of the fight versus showing signs of fear or pacing and yelling angrily? Who would you want then? The focused fighter or the emotional fighter?

who said anything about pacing and yelling? the thing is what you posted was a bunch of new age crystal gazing bullshit. people who actually fight have better things to do than navel gaze.


- if you focus on yourself when fighting then you are lost, because you cannot percieve your opponent
- if you focus on your opponent then you are lost, because you cannot percieve yourself
- by the time you have prepared a strike or throw, it is too late
- by the time you have prepared a counter to a strike or a throw, it is too late

put DOWN the fortune cookies and step AWAY from the Sun Tzu books.

LolodesBois
10/16/2006 6:03am,
put DOWN the fortune cookies and step AWAY from the Sun Tzu books.

What he said.

When will new age people realise that the masters who came up with these zen/budhist idea got their 'satory' through FIGHTING ?

Or that Samurai used zen to come to grip with the fact that they were killing others NOT as a love and peace philosophy.

Even Ueshiba's satory came while DUELING.

Ke?poFist
10/16/2006 11:05am,
What he said.

When will new age people realise that the masters who came up with these zen/budhist idea got their 'satory' through FIGHTING ?

Or that Samurai used zen to come to grip with the fact that they were killing others NOT as a love and peace philosophy.

Even Ueshiba's satory came while DUELING.

The same thing goes for those who tout, "honor" "respect" and "humility" as parts of their MA training. It's not enough to LARP and pay lip service to those qualities. They are experienced through real training -and it doesn't matter if you intend to compete or not consau, real training is not exclusive to sports competitors. That's one of the primary points of this site-

isol8d
10/16/2006 11:40am,
Scott Bakula denied that there are any ongoing talks of a movie being made....

What?

Quantum (http://www.mapionline.org/) McDojo.

It is Fake
10/16/2006 1:18pm,
Okay guys this person was told to post this here.




Here is the initial post:



Hey there everyone! I'm proud to introduce myself on what I am sure will be a friendly and supportive forum.

Background:
As a kid did a smidgeon of karate and aikido. Did high-school wrestling for 2 1/2 years. Now have been training for the last 1 3/4 years and have progressed to an intermediary belt. Attend approximately 3-5 classes a week and practice kicks and punches in the living room when bored.

Age: Mid thirties

Currently Training At:
M.A.P.I. (www.mapionline.org - not a plug, just for the curious) - yes, the style is called Quantum. No, quantumites do not instantaneously pop in and out of various energy states, nor does the name Quantum truly have anything to do with the style. A more appropriate name would be "Master Evan's Style".

How I got suckered in:
My girlfriend and I were Looking for an alternative to fitness-gym workouts. We decided that a martial arts studio would be the best place for an interesting workout. Came to MAPI, liked what we saw, and after about three classes, we joined up. Have been punching and kicking and ki-haping ever since.

Why I train:
- mentally - improve focus, concentration, and equanimity under pressure
- to learn about my body
- keeps my abs toned and works up a big sweat
- want that black belt for prestige
- still tempted by the idea I can be a cocky-ass person who says - "yeah, I could take on that person if I had to."

Why I train at MAPI:
- interesting, unique style that I want to support
- no one's pushing you - you can train as hard as you want or slack off
- still think there's plenty I can learn
- has a diverse training community from teenagers to 60-year olds
- not interested in tournament competition

Some Quantum QA:

Please read as much or as little as you like. I enjoy MAPI and the Quantum style, and don't mind promoting it at all.

Is MAPI a McDojo?

No. Dojo culture is not about progressing through belts as fast as you can. Black belts are for adults only. Because MAPI is non-profit, as you progress through belts you are expected to take on more duties for the dojo (e.g. high level belts lead warmups and teach some of the basic classes).

Is Quantum just a bastardized form of TKD?

No. TKD is the basis for the lower belts. There are forms, stances, punches, blocks, and kicks aplenty, and the "basics" class emphasizes working on those basic moves. Advanced classes diverge from this into chi-sau-based exercises, close-range fighting techniques (sweeps, trips, throws), ground fighting, and open (soft) hand boxing. Most upper-belt vs. upper-belt sparring ends up on the mat.

What's the Quantum "atmosphere"?

The majority (60%) of the students are female, as is our instructor. Pretty liberal"atmosphere regardless or race, gender, or sexual preference. Quantum started on Capitol Hill and participates in the annual Gay Pride parade, if that gives you any idea.

Quantum for self defense?

Quantum style is not geared towards basic self defense, although it does promote some basic striking techniques (jab, cross, push-kick) that can be ingrained in anyone's system.

Quantum or BJJ?

Definitely BJJ. In an "open-sparring" session, the leading junior black belt gave everyone a hard time except for the top-level BJJ guy (I'm pretty sure it was Brian Johnson at the Northwest Jiu-Jitsu club - http://www.nwjjc.com/nwjjc3.html) who basically dominated. Compared to BJJ, Quantum is relatively weak at ground fighting techniques, and definitely not the quickest or best way to prepare for MMA tourneys.

Quantum vs Chinese Lineage (Bagua, Xing-Yi, Xinyiquan, Yiquan, TaiChi)?

Unknown. Quantum is definitely "harder" than most styles, but with a high emphasis on groundedness, balance, and flow. Personally, my goal is to learn Bagua or XingYi after I achieve my black belt at Quantum.

Quantum vs. average bar/dance-club idiot?

Quantum. The fighting stance is simple and practical, and we practice the standard jab, cross, and push kick plenty often. Going to the ground is practiced by advanced students. Our 5'6'' 130 lb junior black belt had no problem taking down and restraining beligerent customers as a local bouncer.

A not-atypical Quantum Saturday workout for me (as an intermediate belt):

- intermediate class worked on the "change sides" maneuver and in close position, maneuvering to "t-bone" (your side to his/her center) your opponent.
- general class including 45 minutes of stretching and basic calesthenics), followed by basic striking drills (push-kick, round-kick, side-kick, jab and cross) and more advanced strikes depending on belt rank, punching from horse stance, and a simple one-step responding to a step-forward jab attack to the face.
- 45 minutes sparring session using "monkey-gloves", cup and shin pads. Advanced students use smaller gloves and black belts use bare hands.

It is Fake
10/16/2006 1:34pm,
The above was for background:

The real reason we wanted conusa out of newbietown was for explanations on posts like these two:


Unless you plan on getting into fights, why do you so urgently need to learn ground techniques?
TKD can be physically and mentally intense. You get great flexibility, and the kicks and techniques can be fun. Just remember it's sport, not self-defense training.This is a dumb statement. Most people don't plan on getting into fights. Yet, he is a realist. If he ends up on the ground he wants to know how to defend himself. According to your website your art has a TKD Base. That means by your definition what you do is sport.


Nothing against trying judo/yudo or jiujitsu -- you might find you like groundfighting. Just don't let the bullshido brotherhood prevent you from having fun with TKD sport.Can you read. The guy specifically asked questions about judo/yudo in korea. So, when the bullshido group speak started you spouted rhetoric. Remember TKD is a sport blah blah blah. He is in contact with a person, in korea that, provided good TKD schools and Yudo schools. Again what did you provide? Rhetoric.

You are here in the USA telling someone in Korea what to train. That is pretty arrogant IMO.


Here's what I would consider more important:

Dojo environment overall, including instructors and student demeanor - I personally want an environment that is serious, intense, yet supportive.

Instructor's demeanor and ability to teach. Some things I would look for are:
- ability to address practical concerns of body mechanics (e.g. the small physical details such as hip rotation, foot placement, breath, muscle relaxation and explosiveness, how to distribute your weight, etc.)
- able to recognize and correct improper form and technique
- teach in a safe manner (e.g. no techniques or exercises that torque your body)
- inspire you to work with intensity
- down to earth -- avoid the cult mentality and instructor worship (versus respect and discipline) - the teacher/student relationship is a two-way street and requires respect and hard work on both ends.
Actually nothing wrong with until, you add this crap:

I would rather take an excellent teacher of TKD over a jacka$$ of a BJJ, J/Yudo, or Jiu-Jitsu instructor any day. Idiotic.