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PPlate
10/13/2006 4:44am,
The original thread got locked, so I'm moving it to newbietown. (I just realized the Homeland Security Forum is sponsored by Gracie Barra, so asking this there probably wasn't a good idea..:D)

The videos I'm referring to are the ones done by Rorion and Royce, with the Basics, Intermediate and Advanced tapes.

I'll start of with the only one I know so far:

1) The "Gracie Gift" guard pass

There was also a technique shown in the Intermediate tapes which goes like this:

- Opponent tries to pass your guard by standing up
- you open your guard, and place both feet on his hips, you roll him over your head, you roll along with him and end up mounted on him

Perhaps there were some finer points that were not explained properly, but I had a lot of difficulty trying to pull it off. Anyone?

LolodesBois
10/13/2006 5:58am,
Well it probably got locked because this has been discussed ad nauseum.

Do the gracy show 'dangerous' (Gracy gift) moves ? Yes
Do their Self-Defense move in SD books lokk the same as Traditional JJ bull ? Yes

Can they kick butt of anyone who doesn't train like they do ? Yes

Now what's your point ? What is it you want to know exactly ?

What's your experience in JJ ?

Because saying you couldn't apply something shown in the Intermediate tape if you don't even master the basic ones is kind of silly.

Pandinha
10/13/2006 8:53am,
The original thread got locked, so I'm moving it to newbietown. (I just realized the Homeland Security Forum is sponsored by Gracie Barra, so asking this there probably wasn't a good idea..:D)

The videos I'm referring to are the ones done by Rorion and Royce, with the Basics, Intermediate and Advanced tapes.

I'll start of with the only one I know so far:

1) The "Gracie Gift" guard pass

There was also a technique shown in the Intermediate tapes which goes like this:

- Opponent tries to pass your guard by standing up
- you open your guard, and place both feet on his hips, you roll him over your head, you roll along with him and end up mounted on him

Perhaps there were some finer points that were not explained properly, but I had a lot of difficulty trying to pull it off. Anyone?

I've been swept by this.

Without doing this all again, it's all about posture and balance, or you get swept.

GoldenJonas
10/13/2006 9:34am,
1) The "Gracie Gift" guard pass


Or triangled. Talk to your instructor about the proper application and technique for the various stacking passes and the proper use and technique for the elevator sweep (that sounds like the sweep you are referring to). Then, drill drill drill drill drill drill.....and then drill some more.

Phrost
10/13/2006 10:00am,
http://rorionfails.ytmnd.com/

PPlate
10/13/2006 10:26am,
Well it probably got locked because this has been discussed ad nauseum.

Do the gracy show 'dangerous' (Gracy gift) moves ? Yes
Do their Self-Defense move in SD books lokk the same as Traditional JJ bull ? Yes

Can they kick butt of anyone who doesn't train like they do ? Yes

Now what's your point ? What is it you want to know exactly ?

What's your experience in JJ ?

Because saying you couldn't apply something shown in the Intermediate tape if you don't even master the basic ones is kind of silly.

The purpose of this thread is not to ask about the guard pass. I'm assuming that has been discussed ad nauseum and I agree.

I'm asking what other techniques shown in there are incorrectly taught or to be avoided, so that I don't waste my time trying to learn them.

My point is I want to know (from people who've watched the tape and experienced in BJJ) which moves I should just ignore in the tapes.

I'm a white belt in BJJ, just started training 2 months ago.

>>Because saying you couldn't apply something shown in the Intermediate tape if you don't even master the basic ones is kind of silly<<

I was trying to learn that technique because I encounter the standing guard pass quite often during sparring and don't know how to respond. Didn't seem silly to me to just try to learn it.

Pandinha
10/13/2006 10:29am,
http://rorionfails.ytmnd.com/

I"ve never understood why during that shooting, all the little particulars we were taught in class wasn't shown.

It seems more like an example of how to get triangled, than how to pass the guard.

PPlate
10/13/2006 10:33am,
Guys, just want to make it clear, I didn't start this thread to discuss "THAT" guard pass. I started this thread to ask what other iffy moves are in there.

Another one that I think is not so good is the instruction on the way to do an armbar from mount. In the tapes it is taught to place the hands on the chest, encapsulating the arm you want to catch.

Up to here, it is exactly as I learn it in class. However in the tapes we are thought to push down and pop up to our feet, and from there sweep one feet over the head to armbar. There is a lot of vital info that is missing from there.

In class, the way my instructor taught it was not to pop up on both feet, but when popping up with hands on the opponents chest, to turn and face sideways, with one feet resting on the ground, and the other kneeling, making sure the knee is near the top of opponent's head.

The crucial part here is that we must be kinda sitting on his tricep, using our groin to block his tricep so he cannot pull his arm out. Only when it is secure do we lean forwards, sweep the other leg over the head and complete the armbar.

These little details I feel are the difference between making a technique work, and making it fail.

This is what I'm asking. Thank you!

Pandinha
10/13/2006 10:36am,
Guys, just want to make it clear, I didn't start this thread to discuss "THAT" guard pass. I started this thread to ask what other iffy moves are in there.

Another one that I think is not so good is the instruction on the way to do an armbar from mount. In the tapes it is taught to place the hands on the chest, encapsulating the arm you want to catch.

Up to here, it is exactly as I learn it in class. However in the tapes we are thought to push down and pop up to our feet, and from there sweep one feet over the head to armbar. There is a lot of vital info that is missing from there.

In class, the way my instructor taught it was not to pop up on both feet, but when popping up with hands on the opponents chest, to turn and face sideways, with one feet resting on the ground, and the other kneeling, making sure the knee is near the top of opponent's head.

The crucial part here is that we must be kinda sitting on his tricep, using our groin to block his tricep so he cannot pull his arm out. Only when it is secure do we lean forwards, sweep the other leg over the head and complete the armbar.

These little details I feel are the difference between making a technique work, and making it fail.

This is what I'm asking. Thank you!

I was told by an instructor, they teach children that technique to learn how to do an armbar.

I was taught the sitting and swinging the outside leg out to do the armbar.

Nowadays, the S mount is just much easier.

PPlate
10/13/2006 10:48am,
Or triangled. Talk to your instructor about the proper application and technique for the various stacking passes and the proper use and technique for the elevator sweep (that sounds like the sweep you are referring to). Then, drill drill drill drill drill drill.....and then drill some more.

Hi GoldenJonas
Thanks for the input. I wiki'ed the elevator sweep and it's not the same as the technique I'm describing.

The technique is kinda like a stomach throw in judo? Except in this case, you put both your feet on the side of his hips and lift him entirely off the ground (you're on the ground, he is above you) and you are entirely supporting his entire weight with your legs, then you do a backroll and then end up in the mount.

If you are the opponent, you'll be in the air (like superman) and then you will hit the ground and roll forwards. The person that was on the bottom will have rolled with you and will now be mounted on top of you

I hope this description is clearer...

PPlate
10/13/2006 10:54am,
I was told by an instructor, they teach children that technique to learn how to do an armbar.

I was taught the sitting and swinging the outside leg out to do the armbar.

Nowadays, the S mount is just much easier.

Hi Anthony, thanks for that tidbit! Nobody knows as well as an insider!

Could you elaborate on this sitting and swinging the outside leg thing?

I'm also not familiar with the term "S mount", but my guess is that is what I was describing where you are mounted over the opponent but facing sideways, with the front leg feet on the floor, and back leg kneeling?

Thanks.

Edited to fix typo

GoldenJonas
10/13/2006 11:28am,
This is the S-Mount to Armbar transition. The actual S-Mount position is shown pretty clearly here in this vid; the guy on top's legs look like an "S"

http://balancestudios.net/JJMpagesMIXED/jiujitsumatrix_Technique9Sarmdetails.htm

does the throw look similar to this, but using both legs ... Tomeo Nage?

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/tomoenage.htm

If that is the throw you are talking about I have only been able to actually pull it off on guys who were MUCH lighter than me.

plasma
10/13/2006 11:42am,
The original thread got locked, so I'm moving it to newbietown. (I just realized the Homeland Security Forum is sponsored by Gracie Barra, so asking this there probably wasn't a good idea..:D)

The videos I'm referring to are the ones done by Rorion and Royce, with the Basics, Intermediate and Advanced tapes.

I'll start of with the only one I know so far:

1) The "Gracie Gift" guard pass

There was also a technique shown in the Intermediate tapes which goes like this:

- Opponent tries to pass your guard by standing up
- you open your guard, and place both feet on his hips, you roll him over your head, you roll along with him and end up mounted on him

Perhaps there were some finer points that were not explained properly, but I had a lot of difficulty trying to pull it off. Anyone?

I did that on Monday. I also like the variation where you stop half way through and drop them into an armbar.

plasma
10/13/2006 11:46am,
I'm a white belt in BJJ, just started training 2 months ago.

.

That explains ALOT.



Because saying you couldn't apply something shown in the Intermediate tape if you don't even master the basic ones is kind of silly


Stick to the basics, go back to the tape when you get a few more stipes on your belt.

Omega Supreme
10/13/2006 11:53am,
The original thread got locked, so I'm moving it to newbietown. (I just realized the Homeland Security Forum is sponsored by Gracie Barra, so asking this there probably wasn't a good idea..:D)

The videos I'm referring to are the ones done by Rorion and Royce, with the Basics, Intermediate and Advanced tapes.

I'll start of with the only one I know so far:

1) The "Gracie Gift" guard pass

There was also a technique shown in the Intermediate tapes which goes like this:

- Opponent tries to pass your guard by standing up
- you open your guard, and place both feet on his hips, you roll him over your head, you roll along with him and end up mounted on him

Perhaps there were some finer points that were not explained properly, but I had a lot of difficulty trying to pull it off. Anyone?

You sir are a fucking idiot. Next time put it in Your Martial Arts Suck section. You should take some Judo or SAMBO so somebody can drop you on your head and shake loose those brain cells that have been hiding in you ass.

PPlate
10/13/2006 8:19pm,
This is the S-Mount to Armbar transition. The actual S-Mount position is shown pretty clearly here in this vid; the guy on top's legs look like an "S"

http://balancestudios.net/JJMpagesMIXED/jiujitsumatrix_Technique9Sarmdetails.htm

does the throw look similar to this, but using both legs ... Tomeo Nage?

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/tomoenage.htm

If that is the throw you are talking about I have only been able to actually pull it off on guys who were MUCH lighter than me.

Exactly.