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MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 12:58pm,
The reason why I chose the name MMA Apostate is because I left sport MMA in search for RBSD. I still enjoy watching and attending MMA competitions. It's just not what I'm looking to train in any longer. Due to the beleif that you will always fight how you train when the pressure is on, and I only want to fight when I can't avoid or escape the situation and I have to survive.(to put it simply) I know alot of things from sport mma can carry over into RBSD but not all of it.

The only trainer I have in my area(Portland, Oregon) that deals with RBSD that I found is Loren Christensen. Private lessons run $60 for an hour and a half of training. Which isn't bad...but still expensive for me.(that's $240 a month if I visit once a week)

This is where I am looking to be set straight. I am looking first to train in Target Focus Training. I like how they outline all the weak points on the human body and how to cause trauma to them. I like how it's based on the science of human anatomy and physiology, However, I do not beleive this system to be the end all of my RBSD learning. I figure that there is usefull information in this system I can use in my overall development of my own RBSD personal program. I find that there are holes in the system such as dealing with the adrenalin dump, fatige, and fear of the violent situation. I also understand that most unavoidable violent situations are ambushes so I beleive you have to have ingrained technique of properly covering up if a person(s) is trying to knock your teeth in, defenses against the shoot if someone is trying to take you down to the ground, or how to quicly roll some one off that has taken you to ground and has taken mount. And also you have to be able to apply what you know underpressure and resistance. I know this as I look to officially train in TFT. Like I wrote earlier I don't see it as a complete RBSD system just a good starting point. Another thing I like about TFT is there phylosophy of when it is acceptable to use violence in our society. (social vs asocial violence)

If you think I'm wrong then set me straight. All I ask is for you to back it up. Or if you know anyone in the Portland Metro Area in Oregon that trains specifically for RBSD let me know.

You guys have a great day.:icon_rr:

Thaiboxerken
10/04/2006 1:01pm,
Feel free to read the newbie FAQ's and get back to us. When you're ready to start training again, check out Straight Blast Gym, Oregon Martial Arts, or Quest. A Place to Shoot also has some programs.

Thaiboxerken
10/04/2006 1:05pm,
Oh, and at A Place To Shoot, Guro Dan Inosanto is giving a seminar this weekend. Call them for details. I'd go, but I'm gonna be in BC for a while.

MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 1:33pm,
Feel free to read the newbie FAQ's and get back to us. When you're ready to start training again, check out Straight Blast Gym, Oregon Martial Arts, or Quest. A Place to Shoot also has some programs.

Thanks for the quick reply. I will look more thoroughly in the FAQ's. Also, I've never heard of Oregon Martial Arts however, the impression I got from straight blast and Quest is that they are sport martial arts oriented not reality-based. Such as knife, gun, and club defense, or eye gouges, groin shots, or ankle stomps were not expressed in there fighting methods.

I'm just looking to be able to survive street violence not obtain belts, trophies, or glory. Don't get me wrong I respect those who go out and obtain such items. Just not what I'm seeking in my martial arts training.

Phrost
10/04/2006 1:35pm,
You can't get closer to "Reality" than training where people are genuinely trying to beat the crap out of you.

And ironically, that generally doesn't happen in many "Reality Based" anything schools.

MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 1:50pm,
You're right about how alot of RBSD don't apply alot of pressure when sparring. I do beleive that issue needs to be addressed. For me though, I'm hung up on the thought that you will always fight how you train. So the training needs to be oriented towards techniques that end the violent situation quickly with you walking a way and the bad guy(s) needing medical treatment. With Sport MMA I find that you are trained in tchniques that still benefit your opponent from being harmed via trauma. And I beleive you would naturally use those techniques when dealing with a violent situation and that it might not be towards your benefit.

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm just trying to explain my thought process of why I've come to the conclusion of training in RBSD not Sport MMA. Also, I would like to add that MMA training is a very well crafted way of learning how to fight, and I have a high respect for those athletes who go out there to compete and make a name for themselves.

Phrost
10/04/2006 2:01pm,
No problem. But "just add dirt".

It's easier to go from a foundation of full contact sparring/fighting to adding intent to harm/kill, than from an intent to kill but no experience in any kind of fighting and trying to pull off "deadly moves" in a real situation.

This should help a bit, a lot of is is relevant:

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=5

From Bell2Bell
10/04/2006 2:36pm,
For me though, I'm hung up on the thought that you will always fight how you train. So the training needs to be oriented towards techniques that end the violent situation quickly with you walking a way and the bad guy(s) needing medical treatment.


Sure, you fight the way you train, but I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as some would like us to believe. When I box I don't ever use the take downs that I used when I wrestled. At the same time if someone is trying to break a beer bottle over my head I'm not going to try to throw a bunch of jabs so I can win on points the way I might in a boxing match. IMHO a lot of RBSD guys over-exagerate the importance of this.

pauli
10/04/2006 2:44pm,
So the training needs to be oriented towards techniques that end the violent situation quickly with you walking a way and the bad guy(s) needing medical treatment. With Sport MMA I find that you are trained in tchniques that still benefit your opponent from being harmed via trauma.how do punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, choking, and otherwise beating the **** out of an opponent protect him from harm?

come to think of it, i'd say competitive mma fighting instills the exact opposite mentality - you keep going until an authority figure (be it the referee or a cop) forces you to stop, regardless of the state of your opponent.

MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 3:31pm,
No problem. But "just add dirt".

It's easier to go from a foundation of full contact sparring/fighting to adding intent to harm/kill, than from an intent to kill but no experience in any kind of fighting and trying to pull off "deadly moves" in a real situation.

This should help a bit, a lot of is is relevant:

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=5

I've just spent awhile going over that link you posted. I now know what you mean by "just add dirt"

I think where my frustrations lie is I'm looking for a MMA/RBSD Hybrid training center, so that you can have a great delivery system but still be aware of how to apropriately shut down an individual quickly when the situation warrents instead of being tied down to finish them via the competition trained way/ only way you know how. And I can't seem to find a place like that around.

Phrost
10/04/2006 3:34pm,
The difference between cranking an armbar for a tap, and cranking it until it breaks, is a whopping .5 of an inch, and the will to do it.

That's not something that needs to be explicitly taught.

PirateJon
10/04/2006 3:40pm,
What he said. In boxing and MT the goal is to KO your opponent. No one trains to win on points.

MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 3:43pm,
I understand what you mean. If some one taps that means you executed the technique right and if you wanted to you could follow through with the move, but is highly unnecessary.

There are some tools though left out in sport mma training. Such as rupturing the ear drum(which can be practiced safely), going for the eyes, throat, groin, minor joint locks, ect. I do beleive that they can safely be thrown into the training mix of MMA that would help you in a violent situation.

It's just that I don't see any MMA school offering this option.

Thaiboxerken
10/04/2006 3:56pm,
www.oregonmartialarts.com

This is where I train, there is some "RBSD" type of stuff trained there, but the core of it is MMA training. You'll learn knife and stick fighting and other "street" oriented type of stuff there as well, it's just emphasized just enough to be effective. The curriculum has changed and the website doesn't reflect it. It's Muay Thai + Gracie Jujitsu + Filipinno Martial Arts + Judo + more.

Rupturing ear drums, eye gouges, throat strikes, groin strikes and stuff like that is the kind of crap you can train yourself to do in 5 minutes or so. Without the timing, tactics, training and alive training that an MMA environment offers, all of the "dirty" stuff doesn't matter. When you're mounted on your opponent, you can throw all of the "dirty" tricks you want out there. When you're mounted, not so much.

MMA Apostate
10/04/2006 4:15pm,
www.oregonmartialarts.com (http://www.oregonmartialarts.com)

This is where I train, there is some "RBSD" type of stuff trained there, but the core of it is MMA training. You'll learn knife and stick fighting and other "street" oriented type of stuff there as well, it's just emphasized just enough to be effective. The curriculum has changed and the website doesn't reflect it. It's Muay Thai + Gracie Jujitsu + Filipinno Martial Arts + Judo + more.

Rupturing ear drums, eye gouges, throat strikes, groin strikes and stuff like that is the kind of crap you can train yourself to do in 5 minutes or so. Without the timing, tactics, training and alive training that an MMA environment offers, all of the "dirty" stuff doesn't matter. When you're mounted on your opponent, you can throw all of the "dirty" tricks you want out there. When you're mounted, not so much.

That looks like a good place to train. However I must admit that it is a bit to far away to travel to. I appreciate that you have taken me up on my offer to be "set straight" I agree with you 100% when you wrote "Without the timing, tactics, training and alive training that an MMA environment offers, all of the "dirty" stuff doesn't matter" I would just like to attend a place that blends the two in there training curiculum, and since I can't find any place that officially does that I feel I have to try to create my own way.

Christmas Spirit
10/04/2006 4:16pm,
That looks like a good place to train. However I must admit that it is a bit to far away to travel to. I appreciate that you have taken me up on my offer to be "set straight" I agree with you 100% when you wrote "Without the timing, tactics, training and alive training that an MMA environment offers, all of the "dirty" stuff doesn't matter" I would just like to attend a place that blends the two in there training curiculum, and since I can't find any place that officially does that I feel I have to try to create my own way.

I would hope that would include continuing your MMA training .

Do you ever compete ?