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PollyR
9/18/2006 9:32pm,
I've been training in karate for almost a year and like it, but I heard about the Filipino arts and would like to give that a try. THere's a local college kid who teaches in his garage so I thought I'd check out a class. Just wondering though if traditional karate and FMA is a good combo.

Thanks-

Vulgar42Ox
9/18/2006 9:39pm,
i dont know, learning in someones garage sounds kind of like there not a professional.

Epa
9/18/2006 10:26pm,
The only way for you to know whether it will be a good mix for you is to go and check out the class. These things often depend on the instructor. Without knowing specifically what style he plays or who his instructor was, it's hard to say much specifically.

Most weapons based Filipino Martial Arts will be quite a bit different from Karate styles. In general, there will be more emphasis on fluidity than rigid power and more emphasis on movement than stance. The training methods will probably be different as well because a lot of FMA styles use counter for counter drills to develop reflexes. This kind of training is not very prevalent in Karate styles.

There are some FMA styles which were blended with Karate and other Japanese martial arts such as the Eskrido system developed by Cacoy Canete and Modern Arnis developed by Remy Presas. Both of these men had training in Karate and Judo and mixed this with the FMA styles that they learned. If you have the chance to learn these styles it might make the transition a little bit easier.

Hope this helps

Red Elvis
9/18/2006 10:36pm,
i dont know, learning in someones garage sounds kind of like there not a professional.

:tard: :5huh:
Yeah, that's why I never went to Rickson's garage when he was teaching out of it. Not professional enough for me. No sir... that's why I waited until Rorion came and opened the acadamy so I could feel legit and spend my $140 per month for two 90 minute classes a week.

Ohh wait... I'm actually teaching beginners in my garage right now. Huh...

Ohh yeah, I also learn FMA in the park.... man, am I a looser!

Red Elvis
9/18/2006 10:41pm,
I've been training in karate for almost a year and like it, but I heard about the Filipino arts and would like to give that a try. THere's a local college kid who teaches in his garage so I thought I'd check out a class. Just wondering though if traditional karate and FMA is a good combo.

Thanks-

Give it a shot. Like previously mentioned the footwork will most likely be very foreign to you but will help you in the long run. Also depending on style of FMA it will most likely not be the blocking and attacking that your used to but more of an attacking block theory. If that makes sense. Again though, there are many FMA styles and some are very different than others.

P.S. Nothing wrong with learning in a garage. Many people just don't want the overhead and you can get good experience for cheap or free. Nothing wrong with that.

Te(V)plar
9/18/2006 11:27pm,
Pay attention and make sure the methodology is sound. Not all FMA places are legit. If you don't believe me, check out a review I made of a Kali/Pentjak Silat place I went to a couple years back.

daGorilla
9/19/2006 12:15am,
I did karate for about 13 years, then studied an FMA concurrently for another eight years actively.

I'd say they mix well. FMA will generally give you more practical weapon fighting skills, and a decent mix of in-close empty hand/boxing-style work to complement your karate.

My only reservation is I'm not sure youv'e studied karate long enough to the point where I'd recommend branching out just yet. Studying multiple styles concurrently before getting a solid foundation can impede progress in both styles. (Which may not be a big issue as long as your patient).

-dagorilla

Red Elvis
9/19/2006 12:33am,
Pay attention and make sure the methodology is sound. Not all FMA places are legit. If you don't believe me, check out a review I made of a Kali/Pentjak Silat place I went to a couple years back.

That's very true. It'll be tough for him to discern though without having prior knowledge of what to expect. I'd suggest giving it a whirl for a couple sessions, talking with the guy about his methodology, style, experience etc. and reporting your findings here for the more experienced FMA guys to weigh in. There are a handful on here who can probably give you a good assesment.

For example I teach my buddies a combination of BJJ, wrestling, boxing and MT out of my garage. It's free, I tell them what it is they are learning and where it's from, and they know it's just the ground work to getting basic fighting skills. There are no ranks, I'm not touting myself as anything but a guy who has trained in various stuff and I tell them good places to go if they want to take it to the next level.

These guys are not going to be bad asses but are just interested in having fun and learning some basic fighting application. It also gets them in shape. My training is also very much "alive" and as such people tend to not go to far with it unless they are prepared to get a little banged up and bloody now and again. I know they are learing when they can start tapping me out or getting in good hits.

If I were charging people money, giving rank and selling myself as the holy badass of the fighting world than I would be the guy you'd want to stay away from.

Blue Collar
9/19/2006 7:26am,
Pay attention and make sure the methodology is sound. Not all FMA places are legit. If you don't believe me, check out a review I made of a Kali/Pentjak Silat place I went to a couple years back.


Templar is absolutely correct. Not all FMA guys are legit. This is particulary true for the McDojo FMA schools that focus more on tournaments and playing tag than on self defense. Just be forewarned and see if the principle are sound. If they're just mindlessly swinging sticks and flailing at the air or at a bag, walk away. If they focus on WEKAF or NAFMA type sparring, walk away. If they're indescriminantly teaching "knife fighting" without exploring/illustrating state penal code and or local law governing "justifiable use of force" for private citizens, walk away.

Now on the other hand, not all "garage schools" are bogus. I know that there are a number of eskrima masters here in SoCal that teach exclusively out of their homes. GM Narrie Babao is one such person doing so. He's as real deal as they come, and those who are fortunate enough to be invited to train there get world class training.

Ryno
9/19/2006 12:27pm,
FMA is one of those arts that is often taught in backyard groups. Many Filipinos tend to be very informal in how they run things, so backyard Arnis groups are quite common, and some are quite good. Most of the highly regarded FMA instructors did teach a backyard/garage group at some point in time. With that being said, not every person who can twirl a stick a little can actually stickfight. There are bad and under-qualified instructors, and there are ineffective FMA styles.

Just observe, and be critical. If it is an impact-based system, can the guy hit hard enough to do some damage? If it is a blade system, can he make decisive cuts, and flow well? Does he move his feet well, and use range effectively? If you can't answer yes to these very general observations, don't even bother.

Whenever I'm observing an instructor, I just go through a little mental checklist like this. Other than that, I always ask myself "Could I beat that guy in a fight, in the realm that the instructor specializes in?" In other words, could I out-stickfight an arnisador, or out-wrestle a grappling instructor, or out-box a striker? If I'm pretty sure that I could beat them, I won't train with that person. It's a pretty good rule of thumb.

PollyR
9/19/2006 7:42pm,
Thanks for the advice. The guy I'm talking about is about 20 years old and these are his credentials:

He's been into the Filipino martial arts since he was a kid. His first trainng was in the Inosanto/Lacoste System. He lived overseas for awhile and trained in Modern Arnis Mano-Mano as well as Lightning Scientific Arnis. He also got certified in Jeet Kune Do, Rapid Assault Tactics, and Filipino Martial Arts (Inosanto-Blend Kali) under Progressive Fighting Systems. He currently practices Atienza Kali. He recentlywent to the Philippines and trained under some important guy there.

So even though he's young, he seems to know his stuff. It doesn't bother me that he trains in a garage because that's how some of the best schools started out. I kind of like that, to be honest. It's not free though. He has 3 classes a week and charges $75/month.


from dagorilla: My only reservation is I'm not sure youv'e studied karate long enough to the point where I'd recommend branching out just yet. Studying multiple styles concurrently before getting a solid foundation can impede progress in both styles. (Which may not be a big issue as long as your patient).

Yeah, I've been wondering about this myself. I like karate, but I'm just itching to do something a little more practical I guess, and escrima seems like something that can be applied quickly and doesn't take years to learn like karate. I could be wrong about that though. I do plan to take both because I like karate so much and would not give it up.

Ryno
9/19/2006 7:59pm,
Who did he train with in Lightning Scientific Arnis? I help run the LSAI/LESKAS Seattle chapter, and could very quickly check his status in Lightning.

Well, it seems like he's trained under a lot of people which normally wouldn't be an issue, except that he is very young to be an instructor. This tends to make me think that he's bounced around and dabbled a lot, but I really have to wonder what skills he's actually absorbed and can put to proper use. Many Inosanto Blend and Modern Arnis instructors are on the seminar circuit, and I'd be concerned if the bulk of his training is via seminar. Even if he is "certified", this might not mean much if it's just a one-day seminar attendance certification, which some instructors will give out.

Like I said, try to objectively analyze his skill level. If in doubt, ask him exactly who he trained under, and for how long.

PollyR
9/19/2006 8:38pm,
Ryno,

He seems like a nice kid so I didn't post everything about him here because I don't want to give away his identity. I will PM you his site and maybe you can check on his credentials. He has his bio posted there.

Thanks-