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EULOGY
8/29/2006 10:29pm,
Hey guys, I'm a Chi Kung instructor who is also into real science and would like to share my perspective on chi. The problem with the Chi discussion is that it is one word used for many things. For example, when I do Chi Kung, I feel sensations like tingling in the palms and heat. Also, if I focus my mind somewhere, I may feel a warm ball or tingling. According to the Chinese, this is Chi. According to a scientist, this may be something else. Who's right? They both are according to their paradigm and their vernacular. However, on the other hand, when people talk about chi feats - I have been able to replicate many of these when I had little training. For example, I hit someone with a focused 3-inch punch and knocked a 215 Pound Man 20 yards back(only because he kept trying to keep his balance instead of falling or rolling backwards). I could also do the iron body with the log, stab myself in the stomach without getting cut (only with semi-sharp knives, but not a real hunter's knife), take punches to the stomach, the unbendable arm, and sit on my buttocks and not be pushed over. I could do this simply using my mental intention, knowledge of physics, and/or breathing techniques. The Chinese would also say these are Chi. However, they are two entirely different phenomena falling under the same heading. At the same time, there is a connection. They all involve focusing the mind with a firm intention, so my interpretation is that chi feats are natural abilities that come from focusing your mind on something. The tingling sensations are biological effects of deep breathing exercises combined with meditation. The exercises help you attain that focused mind and the focused mind performs the abilities.

alex
8/29/2006 10:30pm,
gimme a blunt knife and ill bet you twenty bucks i can make you bleed with it. have fun teaching parlour tricks.

wagamichi
8/29/2006 10:34pm,
You need to come hit me with that.
Then you need to come hit me with that while i am hitting you back.
Then you need to write up an explanation why it did not work.
And before you get all upitty. I have a 5th level teaching grade in Shaolin chuan fa mei wa. I can do those things too. They are called tricks. The only difference between us is your being tricked too.

Torakaka
8/29/2006 10:36pm,
Chi kung feeds on strength and grows stronger and stronger.

Olorin
8/29/2006 10:39pm,
Welcome to Bullshido

Ok first off I hope you have thick skin because this might get a little brutal.


For example, I hit someone with a focused 3-inch punch and knocked a 215 Pound Man 20 yards back.

I seriously doubt that you can knock a man back 20 yards. If you can please video tape it and post in on this site.


stab myself in the stomach without getting cut (only with semi-sharp knives, but not a real hunter's knife)

Can I stab you in the stomach with a simi-sharp knife?


and sit on my buttocks and not be pushed over.

First off…what use is such ability? Secondly…no you can’t. If some one is sitting on their butt you just push them backwards. Please post a video as evidence.

Fitz
8/29/2006 10:39pm,
I can't for the life of me figure out why people are so in love with Asiatic peasent beliefs and superstitions. That some folks have figured out how to market and make a ton of cash off it is impressive. My rural Irish relatives have all sorts of stupid superstitions and they haven't made a single cent off of them.

EULOGY
8/29/2006 10:44pm,
Of course you can. It is a trick and that was my point. The trick requires a knowledge of where to stab yourself and when to exhale. Like any trick, if it is done to another area of your body, it will not work - just like how Houdini could take punches in a show, but not an unexpected punch on the street. My point was that these tricks still take a skill and the skill is either breath knowledge or mental focus. My point was that chi is focusing the mind and/or breath and chi feats are simply the result of the focused mind and/or breathing. There is nothing mysterious about it. Can these tricks be used in a fight? Most likely, no. Taking punches and learning deep breathing and body mechanics can because they harden your body and make you more relaxed. Now, I don't necessarily teach these tricks (except for the 3-inch punch) nor do they prove anything but the power of the mind when it is focused. I don't teach chi kung for martial arts, but rather as exercises to improve one's health.

wagamichi
8/29/2006 10:51pm,
Of course you can. It is a trick Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla I don't teach chi kung for martial arts, but rather as exercises to improve one's health.


Then Dude you are on the wrong fourm and web site. The purpose of those tricks is to fool the idiotic into beliveing you have some arcane knowlage. This is exactly what bullshido is!

you should leave now before it getts ugly...Wait! This just in



*****************There is a 99% chance of UGLY***************


Hi I do CHI KUNG! And the Aliens wont get you if you have one of these!

http://www.raptureready.com/photo/tulsa2/z56.jpg

Samfoo
8/29/2006 10:52pm,
... I don't teach chi kung for martial arts, but rather as exercises to improve one's health.

Is there any scientific evidence that Chi Kung does anything to improve your health more than simple Calisthenics?

If you don't teach it for martial arts, why are you even posting about it on a martial arts board?

Do you teach the Chinese mysticism? If not, why don't you just call it: meditation or something else equally descriptive?

Why do you hate freedom?

EULOGY
8/29/2006 11:01pm,
I have it on DVD. I don't know how to post a DVD. If you send me a private message. I'll give you my paypal and you can paypal me $5 and I will ship it to you ASAP. I hit the person 3 times. The first time = 3 ft. 2nd time = 20 ft. 3rd time = 60 ft. The more focused I was the more the trick worked. I have fought in the street on many occasions unfortunately and would never use it. I also wrestled and boxed and have done various martial arts (like Silat) and I would rely on good ole fashion footwork, punches, knees, elbows, palms, throws, headbutts, biting, or grappling depending on the situation.

As far as how that other trick works, I will explain because after all it is a trick. My point was that I was able to imitate these so-called "chi kung" feats with little training. I think people are missing that point. My point was that a lot of these are tricks. If you sit on your butt and someone puts their arms on your shoulders and goes to push, have your hands under their elbows. By having your hand on their triceps just above the elbows, they are actually keeping you seated instead of pushing you over. It changes the angle slightly enough to change the result. It is similar to lifting weights where someone touches the bar slightly and it changes the difficulty of the exercise.

This trick along with the unbendable arm can be countered by pushing on the nerves where there is tension. If the guy trying to push the other person over were to take one finger and push on the nerve inbetween the collar bone the person's angle would change and he would fall over. With the unbendable arm, dig your fingers into the person's brachial nerve along the forearm and unless he has layers of muscle covering it, his arm will bend. Most of these chi-kung feats are mere physics and physiology. Others are simply feats of physical and/or mental conditioning. This all gets back to my original point chi is one's mental intention and chi feats are either parlor tricks or the results of one's mental intention. When one breaks a board, they need to focus through the board or it will not work. The Asians will say put your chi into it. In other words, focus your mental intention throgh that board. The stronger one's focus, the greater one's achievements are.

wagamichi
8/29/2006 11:03pm,
Give up goob! No one cares.

Doctor X
8/29/2006 11:04pm,
Oh . . . what the hell . . . I somehow obliterated this. . . .


Hey guys, I'm a Chi Kung instructor. . . .

Greetings.

You teach baloney.


. . . who is also into real science and would like to share my perspective on chi.

What real science have you studied?


The problem with the Chi discussion is that it is one word used for many things.

There are only two: "reality" and "baloney" though "bullshit" is acceptable.


For example, when I do Chi Kung, I feel sensations like tingling in the palms and heat.

Physiologic.


Also, if I focus my mind somewhere, I may feel a warm ball or tingling.

Physiologic.


According to the Chinese, this is Chi. According to a scientist, this may be something else. Who's right?

The one who studied it, who discovered the physiologic basis for it, who published the results, whose work was verified and expanded by others.

This is, of course, the scientist.

Chinese scientists agree with these results. Reality does not depend on longitude. The "Straw Chinaman" you evoked also believes in Santa Claus, Quality Country Western Music, cute, and petite lesbians that really want to sleep with a man.


They both are according to their paradigm and their vernacular.

Irrelevant. There is only reality. One either reflects it or not.


However, on the other hand, when people talk about chi feats -

I have done them. Magicians do them better. They are tricks. Do need an explanation for each one of them?

--J.D.

Cormoran
8/29/2006 11:04pm,
Nice troll/joke attempt, the 20 yards bit was where it started failing though.

EULOGY
8/29/2006 11:14pm,
Is there any scientific evidence that Chi Kung does anything to improve your health more than simple Calisthenics? I have read many western studies on the health benefits of Tai Chi and Chi Kung. However, I have not read anything on calisthenics. I know that my daily exercise routine consists of acupressure, joint loosening, stretching, and bodyweight exercises (ie Push-ups, Sit-ups, Roman Chair, Bridges, Indian Squats, Indian Push-ups, et cetera). I try to add chi kung in at night or afterwards because I feel it hitting spots that were not hit in the other exercises. I feel the benefits of all of my routines and doing one without any of the others would feel incomplete.

If you don't teach it for martial arts, why are you even posting about it on a martial arts board? It's a hot discussion on this forum and since I am a skeptic and a practitioner, I believed that my opinion would be valuable.

Do you teach the Chinese mysticism? I just teach the exercises as is. However, I may use phrases like builds chi because I try to speak to everyone in ways that they understand. Some people are looking for a pure Western understanding and some people want to know the Chinese philosophy. I don't necessarily teach meridians or organs unless someone asks what organ is this exercise is meant for.

If not, why don't you just call it: meditation or something else equally descriptive?
People are looking to learn Chi Kung. That is its name. I didn't give it its name. I actually can teach meditation separate and the two may overlap. Although, I have never taught pure still meditation to anyone that I can remember. The Chi Kung I teach is all dynamic movements, which may end with a standing meditation or just feeling what you feel.

Why do you hate freedom?

wagamichi
8/29/2006 11:19pm,
Keep spewing your crap!


http://backecto22.tripod.com/puke.jpg

alex
8/29/2006 11:20pm,
learn to use the quotes buddy, isnt difficult. its the big QUOTE button under someones post.

seriously why is this here? has nothing to do with MA. go talk about parlour tricks elsewhere