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txyu
8/11/2006 9:12am,
Reading all these stories about McDojo's is vastly entertaining, however I find myself in a situation where I might be part of promoting one.

I run a fitness centre and we may be offering TKD classes. What do I look for in an instructor to avoid being listed as a McDojo? What questions should I ask?

I am familiar with martial arts but for the most part only as a spectator so I wouldn't be able to tell a legit certification from a fake one.
I could watch the instructor do a class or even watch some of his "moves" but I'm in no position to say what is right and what is wrong.

Thanks

Nate1481
8/11/2006 9:33am,
TKD is one of the arts with a higger proportion of BS/McDojo teachers, not all ar bad but your odd on finding a good one are low, esp with out experince.

If you can say where your based someone near you may be able to give a recomndation of an instructor who's ligit.

txyu
8/11/2006 9:34am,
Didn't really "choose" TKD.
This person approached me to find a location to rent so he could teach TKD.
But we decided that if we do offer the space, it would be part of our curriculum and we would handle the financials of registrations etc.

I have had offers for "other styles" but this is the first person to follow through on their proposal.

Keep in mind that this is not for me....

I'm in the position of allowing it to be taught out of my facility. A specialty course to add a little variety into the every day Aerobics, weight room, and cardio.

Cuchulain
8/11/2006 9:39am,
What made you chose TKD over other styles?

You should make sure the instructor is willing to have the students spar every class. That means your students will need to invest in TKD gear (Chest guard, Headgear, etc). Most people, on this site are hard on TKD, but I think if the students are going full contact you should be OK (allow headshots as well). I have been to legit TKD schools that go all out. This means students will have injuries. Right now, sport TKD does not allow punching to the head (kicking the head is allowed). You may want to incorporate some boxing into sparring sessions to round out your students abilities (alot of TKD people have a hard time dealing with punches). Be sure that TKD is what you are looking for. Since you do not have alot of experience with martial arts you may want to go to the different gyms in you area and try a free lesson at each one (most places give you one free class).

Thats not what a mcdojo is. Nothing wrong with not sparring FC every lesson, just be aware that if you want to learn how to fight then its pretty essential. But some people just want to learn the art.

A mcdojo is a belt factory, which just cares about raking the most money in at any cost. A mcdojo tends to hand out belts to keep students interested rather than they are ready, They like to make new students sign up for monthly contracts, they care little about the quality of students i.e turn up for long enough and you will get your BB etc.

olympic TKD gets a bad rep for realistic self defence. As long as the guy doesnt go around claiming that he can turn people into killing machines then its fine. Nothing wrong with olympic TKD as a sport. Just find an experienced guy, who has a passion for teaching the art, and who is down to earth. Avoid anyone who says that TKD is the best etc

txyu
8/11/2006 9:41am,
TKD is one of the arts with a higger proportion of BS/McDojo teachers, not all ar bad but your odd on finding a good one are low, esp with out experince.

If you can say where your based someone near you may be able to give a recomndation of an instructor who's ligit.

I don't want to say as of yet. I'm not here to stir up anything in case that person also reads up on these forums.

I'm only asking what to look for for now....

Being that this is a business deal I don't want to burn any bridges but I'm willing to PM the info once I get his certification

sdave
8/11/2006 9:44am,
Tell the TKD instructor(s) that you're weighing other offers.

I see that you have BJJ in your style field. You could contact your instructor and ask if he or one of his other students would consider teaching. A good blue belt in BJJ working under a more qualified teacher at another location would provide FAR more valuable instruction than a whole team of average TKD black belts.

If you could tell us where you are we could provide more specific recommendations.

txyu
8/11/2006 9:48am,
Thats not what a mcdojo is. Nothing wrong with not sparring FC every lesson, just be aware that if you want to learn how to fight then its pretty essential. But some people just want to learn the art.

A mcdojo is a belt factory, which just cares about raking the most money in at any cost. A mcdojo tends to hand out belts to keep students interested rather than they are ready, They like to make new students sign up for monthly contracts, they care little about the quality of students i.e turn up for long enough and you will get your BB etc.

olympic TKD gets a bad rep for realistic self defence. As long as the guy doesnt go around claiming that he can turn people into killing machines then its fine. Nothing wrong with olympic TKD as a sport. Just find an experienced guy, who has a passion for teaching the art, and who is down to earth. Avoid anyone who says that TKD is the best etc

I see...so since I have control of the financials then I control if I'm guilty of running a McDojo. I'm not out to steal money. I want to offer something different at a reasonable cost. I guess it also helps that our class sizes are limited and I can't have 100's of people coming in and out all the time.

sdave
8/11/2006 9:48am,
I don't want to say as of yet. I'm not here to stir up anything in case that person also reads up on these forums.

I'm only asking what to look for for now....

Being that this is a business deal I don't want to burn any bridges but I'm willing to PM the info once I get his certification

Ah. Fair enough.

If you're in Texas, pm me and I'll be happy to point you to someone who can help. I'd imagine most of the Austin guys would be willing to help as well.

Cuchulain
8/11/2006 9:49am,
A good TKD instructor will have the students spar every class. TKD is about the sparring.

i was refering to full contact (FC), with punches to the face as the guy suggested.

Scrapper
8/11/2006 9:49am,
MCdOJO REFERS TO BUSINESS PRACTICES.

BULLSHIDO REFERS TO EFFECTIVENESS AND ETHICAL BEHAVIOR.

Learn the difference people. Muay thai can have McDojo practices, but still be effective. TKD can be complete bullshido, but be reasonably priced and fairly charged.

If your TKD guy is not charging exorbitantly and his credentials are in order, than he should be fine as long as he does not claim to be teaching something that is super street-effective.

If he does claim it is super-street effective, then require that he prove it. With proof.

If you are unsure about any of these factors, PM me and I'll look into it with our more discreet members. TKD isn't bad exercise...it's just bad fighting.

Cuchulain
8/11/2006 9:52am,
MCdOJO REFERS TO BUSINESS PRACTICES.

BULLSHIDO REFERS TO EFFECTIVENESS AND ETHICAL BEHAVIOR.

Learn the difference people. Muay thai can have McDojo practices, but still be effective. TKD can be complete bullshido, but be reasonably priced and fairly charged.

If your TKD guy is not charging exorbitantly and his credentials are in order, than he should be fine as long as he does not claim to be teaching something that is super street-effective.

If he does claim it is super-street effective, then require that he prove it. With proof.

If you are unsure about any of these factors, PM me and I'll look into it with our more discreet members. TKD isn't bad exercise...it's just bad fighting.

Thats what i was trying to say. Im just illiterate.

txyu
8/11/2006 9:52am,
Tell the TKD instructor(s) that you're weighing other offers.

I see that you have BJJ in your style field. You could contact your instructor and ask if he or one of his other students would consider teaching. A good blue belt in BJJ working under a more qualified teacher at another location would provide FAR more valuable instruction than a whole team of average TKD black belts.

If you could tell us where you are we could provide more specific recommendations.

Just want to clarify that...when I registered, it asked me for what I study...and I'm not supposed to put anything stupid.
I'm not a practioner of any style or art. I am just someone who enjoys the arts, the sport of it and have a high respect for anyone participating.

So my listing BJJ is not real but I wouldn't mind learning

Rhamma
8/11/2006 9:54am,
Health club?

Take the money and don't worry about it. If he teaches crap, oh well.

It's business. If someone wanted the rent the space for yoga, or something else who cares?

You are not promoting these classes, you are the landlord. Now if you have a real problem with how he does business i.e. he gouges his students, then don't renew his lease.

There is a 99.44% chance that any TMA or TKD in a health club is going to be crap anyway.

Now, that is not 100% but it is close.

sdave
8/11/2006 9:57am,
MCdOJO REFERS TO BUSINESS PRACTICES.

BULLSHIDO REFERS TO EFFECTIVENESS AND ETHICAL BEHAVIOR.

Learn the difference people.

Don't think anyone is debating the difference. Unfortunately, TKD typically has issues with both. Avoiding it altogether is certainly an option to consider. Coupled with the fact that the OP practices BJJ, then the idea of approaching his instructor seems reasonable.

txyu
8/11/2006 9:58am,
Health club?

Take the money and don't worry about it. If he teaches crap, oh well.

It's business. If someone wanted the rent the space for yoga, or something else who cares?

You are not promoting these classes, you are the landlord. Now if you have a real problem with how he does business i.e. he gouges his students, then don't renew his lease.

There is a 99.44% chance that any TMA or TKD in a health club is going to be crap anyway.

Now, that is not 100% but it is close.

I disagree...I need to worry about it cause I'm the manager. I'm the one responsible for the daily operations. So I'm not going to hire someone to put on a gong show just to collect some money. Same if he was renting from me. I'm just not going to rent to some Joe Blow. What he does here will be associated with my facility.

Cuchulain
8/11/2006 10:01am,
I disagree...I need to worry about it cause I'm the manager. I'm the one responsible for the daily operations. So I'm not going to hire someone to put on a gong show just to collect some money. Same if he was renting from me. I'm just not going to rent to some Joe Blow. What he does here will be associated with my facility.

i think thats very admirable. There would be alot less mcdojos if more people had the same idea as you.