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gojuJKDdude
7/03/2003 1:24pm,
In class we are learning all sorts of knife attack and defenses. One of the things we learnt was a 7 angle attack template where most of the defenses invole trapping the blade against the forearm. Do you think this is safe? How would you respond to someone who though it wasn't?

Escrima9
7/04/2003 4:18am,
Checking the blade arm with your forearm, or trapping the blade against your forearm?

I don't do Kali but the latter sounds really dangerous, especially if it gives them access to the inside of your arm.

deus ex machina
7/04/2003 12:01pm,
Do you mean disarms using your forearm?

~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

deus ex machina
7/04/2003 12:03pm,
Why didn't you just ask Guro Nick?

~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

gojuJKDdude
7/04/2003 2:34pm,
Escrima: Its neutralizing the knife with the blade trapped against the forearm (palm facing you so it's not exposed)

Dues: This is the first step towards disarms using the forearms, right now we'r just trapping and feeding the next attack. I think from the trap you can also turn the knife against the atacker and stab him with it. I was told that Sayoc does not favor disarms, the theory being that the attacker will just draw aother weapon.

I did ask Nick, he said that its safe, if anything youll get minor cuts to your arms but its alot better than getting stabbed in a vital area. I was just curious to see if anyone had any other insights or opinions.

Edited by - gojuJKDdude on July 04 2003 14:35:54

IndoChinese
7/04/2003 7:52pm,
could you be more specific about how you achieve that position?

is the opponent swinging and you trap the arm?

how do you trap the arm?

"palm facing you so it's not exposed)"

whose palm? what's not exposed?

sorry so many questions, but i am confused, i have several ideas about what you may mean.

peace.

<marquee>REDANTKUNTAO</marquee>
<marquee> INDONESIAN GUNG FU</marquee>

deus ex machina
7/04/2003 9:03pm,
Are you talking about the 7 count passing drill, gojuJKDdude?

~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

deus ex machina
7/04/2003 9:18pm,
http://www.q401.com/StripDisarm02.jpg

I think this is what gojuJKDdude is describing.

~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

Edited by - deus ex machina on July 04 2003 21:19:30

Moro_Storm
7/05/2003 12:13am,
hmmm, looks dangerous if the person with the knife knows what they're doing and changes the angle of the knife you will get cut. Personally, I'd rather not get cut anywhere. This kinda reminds me of Rick Hernandez's (Filipino Kuntao) approach, he instructs you to kinda roll in with your elbow (striking the forearm with the elbow) as the knife thrust comes, there is a chance you will get cut though, but supposedly you are protecting your carotid artery.

Why does that guy on the right (in the picture) remind me of the guy "Seth" in American History X? lol

gojuJKDdude
7/05/2003 9:45pm,
Thats exactly it deus, the 7 angle passing drill. Have you seen on sayocs website the 1-5 transition drill videos (demonstrated by none other than guro nick) theyr insane!!

deus ex machina
7/05/2003 10:49pm,
Yup, thought so. And yup, seen 'em. (Very cool. =) )

Using the forearm to strip or disarm is a good idea for several reasons. One, you have more leverage to strip the blade out of the receiver's grip. Two, using your forearm correctly to disarm (outside meaty part of the forearm in contact with blade) is preferable over using your hand or wrist to disarm because if you get cut on the outside of your forearm, you won't lose a tremendous amount of blood and you'll retain the use of your arm (to a varying degree, dependent on the nature of the cut, but infinitely more than receiving a cut across the wrist, which will undoubtedly sever tendons).

If you haven't learned them already, you'll learn the counters to the counters, and you'll see how to neutralize the attempts to disarm. However, as long as you execute properly, controlling the knife hand (arm) and moving decisively, the disarms are very effective.

I've pulled this off in sparring so I know it works, you should do the same. Test everything in real time, that's how we know something works. And you'll see how much of what you're (we're) learning is really effective.


~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

gojuJKDdude
7/06/2003 10:08am,
Thanks for the tips! Do you feel though that the traps are sacrificial in that your sacrificing your forearm so that you wont get cut in a vital area. What do you think about disarm #5 (thrst to heart)? BTW how do you train with Paulson who s on the west coast and your kali teacher who teaches in manhattan? thats one hell of a commute!

deus ex machina
7/06/2003 1:45pm,
gojuJKDdude, I'm gonna take this to PM okay?

~
danny

"That baby better watch his mouth. I rape kids like him as part of my warm-up for raping teenagers, grown men, and eventually charging rhinos." - Boyd

Omar
7/06/2003 1:50pm,
Every person I've talked to so far with any expertise on knife fighting seem to agree on one thing:

You WILL get cut.

So the key is to not get cut in any vital areas. I had a Sihing back in Hong Kong who was realy proud of all the knife wound scars liberally decorating his legs and arms. He liked to point out that there were none on his torso or the insides of his legs or arms.

BAH ! Puny Humans !

Rashomon
7/06/2003 4:50pm,
"hmmm, looks dangerous if the person with the knife knows what they're doing and changes the angle of the knife you will get cut."

I'm not sure how they can change the angle of the cut. You have control of their wrist, and you will strip the knife VERY quickly. At most, like someone said, you will only get a minor cut. Actually, as Omar pointed out, you probably will get cut regardless of what you do. My sifu said to try giving a magic marker to a 5-year old and try to take it from him/her without getting marked up. :)

Deus also made a very good point about getting cut on the back of the arm, as opposed to the front or the wrists. If you get cut on the front or the wrists, your attacker might cut your tendons. Then, you won't be able to grab or make a fist. If your attacker severs the tendons on the BACK of your forearm, you won't be able to open your hand... but you can still grab and, more importantly, still make a fist. The guy in the picture looks like he would only get cut on the bone, not any of the tendons.

Still... best knife defense = flee.

Miguksaram
7/06/2003 5:55pm,
"So the key is to not get cut in any vital areas."

I agree with this however, if you look at what is exposed, the attacker is very close to the wrist. The defender does not have the wrist or the elbow locked up well which give the attacker time to rotate the wrist as well as bend the elbow. The attacker can side step towards his right by bending the elbow. Once the elbow has mobility he can easily rotate the wrist in a matter to cut at the defender's wrist.

Now keep in mind that I am taking this straight from the picture. Now you could argue that the defender is in motion to circle his fore arm outward and around which would cause the attacker to either lose his grip on the knife or lock up the attackers arm once the full circular motion is completed by the defender. It becomes a "who is faster" scenario.

Jeremy M. Talbott

Owner of Kungfools, Scourge of Kungfools' joke-based logic, and the Preeminent Force in putting dumbasses like him to bed
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