PDA

View Full Version : US marines learning WT



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

DANINJA
7/03/2003 7:40am,
http://www.geocities.com/zchaw18/marine.html

Also Sifu Collins has video clips on his site:

http://www.geocities.com/zchaw18/

Balloonknot
7/03/2003 8:25am,
Cool, I think that WT would be better than the bullshit hand to hand combat that the Marines currently learn. Of course, it all depends on the curriculum that Mr Collins puts together for a shorter time of training. I guess he would be giving a WT crash course then??

Geek Kune Do
7/03/2003 8:34am,
Yes indeed. That sure beats the TKD the Iraqi soldier were studying.

"Ya can't play with my YO-YO!!!"

SLJ
7/03/2003 8:39am,
IMO they're better off with something a bit less intricate.

----------------------------------------------------------
Space may be the final frontier,
But it's made in a Hollywood basement.

Southpaw
7/03/2003 9:22am,
The U.S. Military has been learning Wing Chun for a long time. My Sigung Brian Edwards has been teaching Army personnel and Special Forces in Fayetteville, North Carolina for many years now.

paralax19
7/03/2003 9:30am,
What about Grav Maga? (is that the right spelling) wasnt that designed for army use?

SuperHappyLucky7
7/03/2003 9:51am,
Hey we managed to temporarily down the site! (http://www.geocities.com/zchaw18/
)

Matt Stone
7/04/2003 4:10pm,
The U.S. Military has been learning Wing Chun for a long time. My Sigung Brian Edwards has been teaching Army personnel and Special Forces in Fayetteville, North Carolina for many years now.


Your understanding of military training, military hand to hand combat programs, the special operations community and contracted instructors is flawed...

The USMC's official hand to hand combat method is called the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. It is (if I recall correctly) headquartered in Okinawa, and is strongly based on classical Okinawan karate. It is an extremely rigorous program, and is far and away better than the mistakes that have come before it.

The US Army's official combatives program has been recently revamped, and in addition to a generic boxing based standing method, ground fighting/grappling techniques have been incorporated as well.

As for civilian teachers providing instruction to the armed forces in general, or to certain units in particular, different situations can arise. An installation may contract an instructor to provide services to the entire installation community (military, family members and civilian employees) at no cost or for a fee. A unit may contract an instructor on a semi-permanent or temporary basis to provide services to the members of that unit (this is most often paid for through their annual training budget). Different units may contract similar instructors, and same units may contract different instructors.

To say that the USMC, as a branch of the military, is learning Wing Chun (or any other art other than the approved MCMAP) is erroneous. One group, one unit, one installation may be availing themselves of the services of a local instructor, but that does not make that instructor an "official" instructor to the military.

If it does, then I have done some pretty impressive things in my time, since I have been teaching as long as I have been in the Army, and 90% of my students have been military...

As for the SF at Fort Bragg studying Wing Chun under someone's instructor for years, fine. Whatever. Just don't assume that that instructor is the be-all-end-all for the military. The SF folks up here at Fort Lewis study Arnis under Datu Kelly Worden, and the Rangers contract BJJ instructors and others periodically...

The only "official" programs are those I stated above. I don't know what the Navy and Air Force equivalents are, but I am sure they either have a similar "official" program, or at least contract services in a similar fashion as the USMC and the USA do to shore up other openings in their training schedule.

Gambarimasu.

Phoenix
7/04/2003 4:49pm,
"What about Grav Maga? (is that the right spelling) wasnt that designed for army use?"

Yes, it was. However, I believe the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) is one of the few militaries in the world that makes extensive use of Krav Maga, unfortunately.

But that makes sense, since they developed it anyway. If you can get your hands on it, there's an awesome book called "Fighting Fit", by Col. David Ben Asher. It talks all about Krav Maga and the IDF's training regimen. It's a good book, anyway.

"Everybody knows...if the police have to chase you down, they're brining an ass kicking with them". - Chris Rock

tbone7812
7/04/2003 5:12pm,
would have to aggree with Amp on this one, since i was 11b down at Bragg and see what goes on there, WC is the best thing for the battle field i would have say.

TaeBo_Master
7/04/2003 7:20pm,
Yiliquan.... no one is saying that the entire USMC is doing WT. Saying that marines are learning WT could mean anything from 2 marines up to all marines...

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --

Matt Stone
7/04/2003 8:53pm,
Yiliquan.... no one is saying that the entire USMC is doing WT. Saying that marines are learning WT could mean anything from 2 marines up to all marines...

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --


I know... Just trying to keep it clear, that's all... I have run into far too many folks that claim they were "official" instructors for the Army or whatever, when in fact all they had was a 6 month contract (standard deal) with the gym on post to teach a class to the community... From that they market themselves as some kind of high speed, combat effective, military instructor, when in fact they probably only taught a handful of people, and half of them were wives and kids (not soldiers).

Kungfoolss
7/05/2003 1:49am,
"What about Grav Maga? (is that the right spelling) wasnt that designed for army use?"

Yes, it was. However, I believe the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) is one of the few militaries in the world that makes extensive use of Krav Maga, unfortunately.

But that makes sense, since they developed it anyway. If you can get your hands on it, there's an awesome book called "Fighting Fit", by Col. David Ben Asher. It talks all about Krav Maga and the IDF's training regimen. It's a good book, anyway.


Black Belt magazine excerpts-

November 2002

Birth of krav maga

To prepare soldiers for combat and to instill a warrior spirit, in the 1980s the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) created a boot-camp-style hand-to-hand program called krav maga (krav means "combat" or "fight," and maga means "touch" or "contact"). Krav maga is a well-rounded hybrid system which encourages students to be aggressive and decisive in conflict. It includes hard-hitting hand and elbow strikes, thai-style knee strikes, low kicks, grappling, knife defense, gun and rifle takeaways, and lots of physical conditioning. The original concept of krav maga was to absorb any martial art that was useful by taking its most effective techniques and teaching them quickly and efficiently.

Krav maga offshoots

In late 1980s krav maga was also being taught to the Israeli public. Since everyone in that society serves in the military, most of the population had been exposed to it anyway. In fact, the name of the art became so common that it was used as loosely in Israel as the word karate is used in America. Variations sprang up everywhere. By the 1990s, everybody was claiming to be a krav maga master or a 10th degree black belt.

Some of the original instructors of krav maga got so fed up with people claiming that their krav maga was the "true-version taught to elite units" that they dropped the term krav maga from their vocabulary altogether. With so many people laying claims to the krav maga system, many veteran instructors felt a need to regulate what was, and was not, pure krav maga. Several organizations stepped up to the plate: the krav maga association, krav maga federation, krav maga union, Israeli krav maga, international krav maga federation, krav maga and so on.

A few years ago, the Wingate Institute, a respected Israeli sports organization, claimed to have the exclusive rights to krav maga for licensing and curriculum purposes. Although it was recently defeated in court, the organization is appealing to the Israeli Supreme Court. Many in the military community are outraged at the Institutes attempt to gain control of the name.

Since the commercialization of krav maga in Israel, there has been a movement away from using these terms altogether.

Phoenix
7/05/2003 2:05am,
So, the IDF created Krav Maga. That's exactly what I said.

"Everybody knows...if the police have to chase you down, they're brining an ass kicking with them". - Chris Rock

DANINJA
7/05/2003 6:44am,
I heard that krav maga was developed from "defendu" the unarmed system the british /americans used in WWII developed by Col.Applegate and some other guy.Apparently its modified boxing mixed with Kano jujitsu techniques!!

Phoenix
7/05/2003 7:06am,
Actually, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Defendo is a fairly new concept which was actually derived from the William Fairbairn styles of unarmed combat....sorry, I can't remember the exact name off hand.

But anyway, I think that Krav Maga was invented first.

"Everybody knows...if the police have to chase you down, they're brining an ass kicking with them". - Chris Rock