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cyrijl
7/02/2003 11:12am,
my search feature has not been working...

does anyone know of a site which discusses the differences between:

1-kali, escrima, silat
2-how the politics breaks down.

My Krav school is going to start having Cabales Serrada Escrima lessons soon and i've had a hrd time getting decent info. Any book titles would help too.

________________________________________________
Objects in life are closer than they appear

Sam Browning
7/02/2003 12:42pm,
I don't know much abouut the FMAs but a really good book is "Filipino Martial Culture" by Mark V. Wiley, (Charles E. Tuttle Company, Rutland Vt, 1996).

Dibble
7/02/2003 12:53pm,
Yes, but definitely do not take that as gospel.

cyrijl
7/02/2003 12:57pm,
thanks

________________________________________________
Objects in life are closer than they appear

MrMcFu
7/02/2003 1:01pm,
My old Escrima teacher said something like Escrima was for the common people, Arnis was for the soldiers, and Kai was used by the nobility. Whatever that is worth . . .

http://www.zanshin-dojo.de

MrApollinax
7/02/2003 1:23pm,
Here are some links that can give you more info on the different FMAs:

http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/eskrima/digests/fmafaq.htm

cyrijl
7/02/2003 1:46pm,
that was very helpful thanks


________________________________________________
Objects in life are closer than they appear

deus ex machina
7/02/2003 3:31pm,
They are different names for basically the same thing. Regional differences in terminology explains why we have "arnis", "escrima", and "kali".

"Silat" is used to describe Indonesian Martial Arts, not FMA's.

~
danny

"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

drunkenj
7/02/2003 4:19pm,
cabales style is v. good. What alot of people do not realise about the fillipino martial arts is that they were heavily influenced by the fighting styles of the spanish conquistadors and italian mercenaries who invaded. That is what Dan Inosanto said anyway. Good luck with your research. If you want good kali vids check out the dog brothers videos- they fight full contact- cutting between teaching and fights to show the techniques at work. Also they are quite enjoyable to watch purely for entertainment. Don't know if they are still avaliable though, i borrowed them off a mate- they are about ten years old

IndoChinese
7/02/2003 11:38pm,
the style of silat that i practice trains in evasive movements that counterstrike simoultaneously. a heavy centerline guard is maintained at all times and continuous movement is the rule, once movement is initiated.

footwork along the langkahs is a distinguishing feature of silat as well. simple geometric concepts that allow one to orientate on the proper principles of physics inherent in good technique use. many systems have templates for their operational rules, but i definately favor the 'thinking process' of silat. i have read many other systems models of conceptual awareness for engagement and found them to quite unwieldy( the 'songs' of many CMA styles for one). silat concepts use simple geometric images to 'communicate' rather large 'blocks' of information. they serve as an excellent mnemonic while training.



peace.

<marquee>REDANTKUNTAO</marquee>
<marquee> INDONESIAN GUNG FU</marquee>

DANINJA
7/03/2003 9:11am,
Check the articles section on this site:

www.mubai.cc

elipson
7/03/2003 8:16pm,
Here is an AWESOME page on FMA's

http://www.geocities.com/kalipages/

JKDChick
7/03/2003 11:13pm,
Kali's the "mother art" of the other two -- escrima is a French loan word, brought by the Spanish, that means "sword" or "Fencing" or "swordfighting".

"Oh ****, it was the other Osiris, The Wastrel." -- patfromlogan

Mercurius
7/05/2003 7:38am,
Right, enough of that. From the essay "Toward Meaning and Understanding" by in Arnis Mark V. Wiley:

"First, the contention that kali is a shortened term for Kalimantan, kilirongan, kaliragman, or pagkalikali cannot be argued. It may or may not be. However, there is no proof that North Borneo is the place where Filipino martial arts are derived from or that these arts are actually the oldest in the Philippines. Second, the term 'kalis' is already short, so why would it need to be shortened further? The point is, people just don't know where the term or the art comes from."

He goes on:
"The term 'kali' was first used by Yambao (author of Mga Karunungan sa Larong Arnis, the first book on arnis de mano) as a shortened term for many stickfighting arts in the Philippines. The term was made popular through the late Floro Villabrille's teachings in the United States. Villabrille's art comes from Cebu, and he also trained further in Manila with his uncle, the late Antonio Illustrisimo. While Villabrille's certificate from the Philippines says 'eskrima,' he chose to name his personal eskrima style 'kali' (and thus likening it to the past as per Yambao). According to Ben Largusa, the system's current headmaster, the term 'kali' is an acronym composed of the first syllables of the Visayan root words kamut lihuk, meaning "hand movements." And while the term 'kali' is commonly used as a general term representing the vast array of Filipino martial arts, it is in fact just the name of one specific system of eskrima. So, why do people the world over think kali is the mother art of the Philippines?"

"During the 1970s, when these arts were gaining their first exposure in the United States, many wrote that kali was the so-called "mother art" of the Philippines. As a result, many masters changed the names of their systems from arnis and eskrima to kali in an effort to make their art appear more authentic."

A couple of examples:
'Pekiti tirsia arnis' becomes 'dekiti tirsia siradas kali' because the headmaster wants the art's name to reflect a Filipino origin, not because of any "mother art" status of kali.

'Olistrisimo eskrima' becomes 'kalis Illustrisimo', in reference to the "sword style" (kalis being the word for sword). The term "kali" only became used at the request of American teachers of the art when the term became popular.



Edited by - Mercurius on July 05 2003 07:39:49

Freddy
7/07/2003 7:06pm,
I think the Krav Magda schools really need some good lessons about weopon defenses against trained attackers. As far as I have seen Krav Magda unarmed defense (I'm refering to knife and stick only not gun) work only against untrained attackers. I really doubt that they can defend against someone who knows arnis/escrima/kali. Thats why I hate it when you here some instructor who says that "Krav Magda is the best martial arts in teh world". You just know that isnt true.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"

Freddy
7/07/2003 7:10pm,
cyrijl- I have to agree with everyone Mark Wileys and Dan Inosantos books are probably the best info you could get in the English language about the Filipino arts. As for silat I havnt seen any decent information out there. Apprently theres alot of bad politics between silat schools in North America. Mainly between the various De Thours and also Sanders. And theres quite a few McDojos out there.

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"