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ed3
6/27/2003 6:18pm,
Who are these guys? Can someone tell me who they are and where they came from? I have heard that they are supposed to be the very best strikers ever. Faster and harder hitters than anyone else.

ed3
6/28/2003 2:02pm,
Yes, I have heard that they are a cultish. I know that they also have lost most of their top ranking people. I wonder what that says about them when their top guys keep leaving? I have only meet one of their black belt instructors. He is very young and very arogant. He seemed like he wanted to help but was very cocky.

TheEdge883
6/28/2003 4:09pm,
Well you are going to see that with any organization, including the original Ed Parker organization. Except with that, most of the high ranking people left AFTER Mr. Parker died. Arrogance is part of the martial arts field though, you're always going to know that other people know more, and they will not be afraid to tell you that they are better. The AKKI is no different.

I do believe that they ought to treat their current and former members a bit better, someone will come up behind them one day and kick them in the ass.

XtremeJ_AKKI
6/28/2003 4:55pm,
Cocky as hell though, bordering fanatical and just a bit cultish. They are fiercely loyal to their organization. They are extremely scientific, and work to create new big words to try to explain why a particular technique works. Check out their web site at www.akki.com, there are a few videos of Paul Mills and a stationary target, along with a write up on how that technique has the power it claims to have. Anyone here have any comment???

Yes, I have a comment. I am a 2nd degree black belt in the AKKI, training and teaching out of Mississippi. First off, to generalize the members of ANY martial arts organization as ' cocky ' and ' cultish ' is not only highly inaccurate, but presumptious as well.

Allow me to fill you in on a bit concerning the AKKI...it is an association of givers. Mr. Mills constantly gives and gives of his time, money, and energy to provide us with the personal innovations he has added to the art. Cultish? Why, because many of us are proud to be here? Who isn't proud to be with their association/school, if they hold it in such high regard? You make too many generalizations concerning us.

As far as the technique clips are concerned, I think many are misunderstanding the point. There are ( what I call ) base mechanics in Kenpo, and then there are subtle mechanics, which greatly add to that already developed. The point of the video clips ( and their respective descriptions ) is to display some of the principles behind these subtle mechanics. The block Mr. Mills does in the 2nd video in the site ( the softer one ), I was personally hit with two weeks ago at the Illinois camp, and I can attest to it's power and effectiveness ( the strike itself seemed slow and effortless, though it easily dropped all 6'1, 270 pounds of me ).

As for the AKKI losing most of it's top-ranking instructors, that is far from the truth. In the past two years, Ron Boswel ( of Utah ) and Keith Gorham ( of Texas ) have left the organization to pursue their own interests. 2 instructors is hardly ' most ' of the top-ranking instructors.

I have posted here not with the intent of arguing over the internet, but to hopefully clear up some of the rumors presented here. If anyone wishes to discuss this further ( or has a serious issue with the organization ), feel free to email me at [email protected] .

Salute,
Jason Wilson
2nd Degree black belt
AKKI, Mississippi

Phrost
6/28/2003 5:36pm,
Thanks for your views Mr. Wilson. Your participation in the discussion is appreciated.

There are many people out there with questions about particular martial arts, and by answering them in public on a forum such as this, it goes a long way toward increasing credibility.

TheEdge883
6/28/2003 5:56pm,
Jason,

I apologize if I insulted you or the organization. I posted neither to slander the organization nor its members. Yes they are very proud of their lineage. I would be too considering their leadership.

I was just posting what I knew from my own experiences with AKKI members. Yes they are very proud of their lineage, but the pride I tend to see in the organization tends to be a little freaky at times. Again, this is coming from eyes outside the system, so the only exposure to the AKKI that I have seen is several people I have known. I am sure the actual experience is a different thing, but the only experience that I can say is by the people who I know. It is said that the people you meet of a certain group shape your view of that group, and this is my experience. Speaking with members and former members of the organization has shaped my opinion.




Edited by - TheEdge883 on June 28 2003 18:13:59

KenpoStan
6/28/2003 7:09pm,
I am a Kenpo guy as you can see from my name. I donít know of the AKKI group. I am also from the Parker Family so, I do know about Parker Kenpo. What I saw on there web site leads me to believe that they arenít very different than most of us. Kenpo is my personal favorite Martial Art and Iíve trained in quite a few. When people tell me Kenpo doesnít work I just smile cause, how could any martial art that practices fast hard combinations not work?

These guys probably know there stuff, but they suffer from the same ailments that most Kenpo guys do.

Vocabulary Tripping Ė which is the art of using a big word when a little word will explain it better.

Me-to-ism Ė the art of stealing from the current hot Art and saying we always did that, as in grappling and pressure point knock outs.

The knock outs on their web site or phony as they come. Iím not saying you canít knock people out that way, Iím just saying they didnít knock anyone out, so why put fake knock outs on your site and try to pass them off as real?

Anyway just my two cents Iím sure they have a good program. They should just be for real and good things will follow.

TheEdge883
6/28/2003 7:37pm,
I am a Kenpo guy as you can see from my name. I donít know of the AKKI group. I am also from the Parker Family so, I do know about Parker Kenpo. What I saw on there web site leads me to believe that they arenít very different than most of us. Kenpo is my personal favorite Martial Art and Iíve trained in quite a few. When people tell me Kenpo doesnít work I just smile cause, how could any martial art that practices fast hard combinations not work?

These guys probably know there stuff, but they suffer from the same ailments that most Kenpo guys do.

Vocabulary Tripping Ė which is the art of using a big word when a little word will explain it better.

Me-to-ism Ė the art of stealing from the current hot Art and saying we always did that, as in grappling and pressure point knock outs.

The knock outs on their web site or phony as they come. Iím not saying you canít knock people out that way, Iím just saying they didnít knock anyone out, so why put fake knock outs on your site and try to pass them off as real?

Anyway just my two cents Iím sure they have a good program. They should just be for real and good things will follow.


You think I'm lying but I'm tellin' it like it is


Actually, I do believe those knock outs really work, I have had it happen, though to not that extent. My instructor would hit me at a certain point of my neck, and I would see the world go black for a minute and the next thing I knew I was on the ground with everyone laughing and making jokes about it. I would think that if a punch like that, with that kind of speed actually connected, that it would be extremely devestating.

I would like to learn the AKKI system though. I think that the rythmic timing theory is extremely interesting. I have met Ron Boswell (7th or 8th dan) and Larry Kongaika (4th dan) of the IKKA, taught by Mr. Mills, and have seen it in action and it is so incredibly devestating. I would believe that if the whole organization is based off these rules, it would be extremely beneficial to learn.

KenpoStan
6/28/2003 11:39pm,
That's just it theEdge, some knock outs do work but those on the web site or phony! the guys or just taking a dive I know several guys who do pressure point knock outs and they really knock guys out!

If you know how it's done (and I do) you know those on the site are phony. For instance on the second one where he supposedly knocks the guy out with a palm strike you can see the (victim) turn look for the ground put his right hand down to break his fall. then he collapses...

TheEdge883
6/28/2003 11:45pm,
Now that's a good eye, I'm gonna have to look at the video again. Thanks for the lookup!

Alan Jacob
6/30/2003 12:42am,
FYI,
I was the one who was the Mr. Mills' subject for those video clips. Just so you guys know, many knockouts may not fit in your definition or perspective as a knockout. Do they have to be completely motionless. There is another clip of me in that very situation. Boxing has many knockouts and we mostly agree on it's validity. Are they all completely motionless or not funtioning on any physiological level? Please understand I do not want to have any tone to this note but I would say since I have been knocked out and can tell there are different levels of this. Also, I was not faking anything but you can believe what you like. My intention is to make some sense to the questions some of you asked. The AKKI would be no more "cultish" than any other system. Do they all share some kind of loyalty to their system and instructors? Yes. Do people get somwhat defensive if someone badmouths them especially when they do not have the facts or form opinions based on conjecture, assumption and the representation of one individual? That's hardly a basis for sound judgement, would'nt you think? The only "top "guys who have left are Ron Boswell in 8/00 and Keith Gorham in 6/03. There have been others who have left but many more who have stayed and many more who have joined. If everyone was leaving, then you might have good grounds for your statements. Aslo in the IKKA, there were some of the seniors who left Mr. Parker and some who came back as well. Chuch Sullivan, Larry Tatum, Tom Kelly,. Ask Larry Kongiaka as he has all the records. Those who left,or came back, it really means nothing in the scheme of things of which we are talking about though, then and now.
As far as the Edge is concerned, since your telling like it is, please tell me how it was when you were there watching the filming process of our video clips on our site? Your me-to-ism and vocabulary tripping is a thin facade of filling in information where you really don't have any I feel. All we are doing in the AKKI is taking what we feel Mr. Parkers end work could go. We are not saying that Mr. Parker should have done this. Nor are we saying that other kenpo organizations should do this as well. If that was the case, we would let in dual memberships. We are happy doing our thing and have no desire to try and convince the other associations as a whole to flip to our way of thinking. Many individuals who were with the IKKA and others have because what we are doing is different. The system is not just a revamp. I am not going to try and convince you to see it our way. All I really want to say is look at it from a different perspective. Seek first to understand is a pretty simple idea but very difficult to behavioralize.
Just so you know who I am, I am a Utah rep and on the AKKI board of directors and have been involved in most AKKI policy and programatics since the inception.
Thanks
Alan

Omega Supreme
6/30/2003 1:49am,
FYI,
I was the one who was the Mr. Mills' subject for those video clips. Just so you guys know, many knockouts may not fit in your definition or perspective as a knockout. Do they have to be completely motionless. There is another clip of me in that very situation. Boxing has many knockouts and we mostly agree on it's validity. Are they all completely motionless or not funtioning on any physiological level? Please understand I do not want to have any tone to this note but I would say since I have been knocked out and can tell there are different levels of this. Also, I was not faking anything but you can believe what you like. My intention is to make some sense to the questions some of you asked. The AKKI would be no more "cultish" than any other system. Do they all share some kind of loyalty to their system and instructors? Yes. Do people get somwhat defensive if someone badmouths them especially when they do not have the facts or form opinions based on conjecture, assumption and the representation of one individual? That's hardly a basis for sound judgement, would'nt you think? The only "top "guys who have left are Ron Boswell in 8/00 and Keith Gorham in 6/03. There have been others who have left but many more who have stayed and many more who have joined. If everyone was leaving, then you might have good grounds for your statements. Aslo in the IKKA, there were some of the seniors who left Mr. Parker and some who came back as well. Chuch Sullivan, Larry Tatum, Tom Kelly,. Ask Larry Kongiaka as he has all the records. Those who left,or came back, it really means nothing in the scheme of things of which we are talking about though, then and now.
As far as the Edge is concerned, since your telling like it is, please tell me how it was when you were there watching the filming process of our video clips on our site? Your me-to-ism and vocabulary tripping is a thin facade of filling in information where you really don't have any I feel. All we are doing in the AKKI is taking what we feel Mr. Parkers end work could go. We are not saying that Mr. Parker should have done this. Nor are we saying that other kenpo organizations should do this as well. If that was the case, we would let in dual memberships. We are happy doing our thing and have no desire to try and convince the other associations as a whole to flip to our way of thinking. Many individuals who were with the IKKA and others have because what we are doing is different. The system is not just a revamp. I am not going to try and convince you to see it our way. All I really want to say is look at it from a different perspective. Seek first to understand is a pretty simple idea but very difficult to behavioralize.
Just so you know who I am, I am a Utah rep and on the AKKI board of directors and have been involved in most AKKI policy and programatics since the inception.
Thanks
Alan




Gentlemen...

What's your point?

You don't have to come on here defending yourself. Most of the guys on here really don't care who you are. Just need somebody to bash on and you've been elected today's main target. Hell I don't think there's been one "style" that hasn't been bashed at one time or another. Most "kempo" guys I've met border on the fanatical. But so have some Aikido guys and a ceartain Ninja clan we won't go into. Levels of knock-out. IMHO that's like saying a level on death. Either you're knocked out or your not.

My definition: getting hit so hard that you lose all body control for a given time, sometimes to complete unconsciousness.

Go away I'm talking to myself

TheEdge883
6/30/2003 3:27am,
As far as the Edge is concerned, since your telling like it is, please tell me how it was when you were there watching the filming process of our video clips on our site? Your me-to-ism and vocabulary tripping is a thin facade of filling in information where you really don't have any I feel. All we are doing in the AKKI is taking what we feel Mr. Parkers end work could go. We are not saying that Mr. Parker should have done this. Nor are we saying that other kenpo organizations should do this as well. If that was the case, we would let in dual memberships. We are happy doing our thing and have no desire to try and convince the other associations as a whole to flip to our way of thinking. Many individuals who were with the IKKA and others have because what we are doing is different. The system is not just a revamp. I am not going to try and convince you to see it our way. All I really want to say is look at it from a different perspective. Seek first to understand is a pretty simple idea but very difficult to behavioralize.
Just so you know who I am, I am a Utah rep and on the AKKI board of directors and have been involved in most AKKI policy and programatics since the inception.
Thanks
Alan




Mr. Jacob, do you have a problem with me? I am not trying to start another big AKKI vs. The world fights, like I am sure you know of. I am just telling it like I see it, whether it's how it is or not. There was a question asked about who you were, where you came from. I answered because I have spoken with and practiced with a few members of your organization. I do stand by what I have said. MOST of the AKKIers I know of, and that includes you, are fanatical about being AKKIers. Is that a bad thing? No, I don't think so. It does, though, make your organization look a bit cultish. Like you, like Jason earlier in this thread, whenever someone mentions AKKI in a thread, one of you comes a running to try to difuse a situation that never needed your help in the first place. Loyal? Yes. Fanatical? From my eyes. Just stand back and let people talk, it's not going to hurt your organization.

I don't care why others have left your organization, I don't care who has left your organization. I brought up names that I was aware of who trained with Mr. Mills. You have other names? I probably haven't studied with them. Mr. Gorham, I don't have any idea who he is, but I am sure if I had it would have been a great experience. I remember training from you, way back in the early 90s, down in southern utah, and it was a great experience back then too.

Like I said earlier, I don't have a problem with your organization, aside with a few members. I'm not claiming to have any knowledge of what happened during the filming of these clips, you may want to re-read the thread again. I think that what you guys are doing for your kenpo world is great. If you have detected any negativity in any of my posts, outside of just being honest, it was never my intention. I was just telling it how it is as an outsider looking in. You don't like it? I don't care.

By the way, you may not have meant me when you stated my user ID, so if any of this has offended you, I'm sorry.

Have a good night :)

Blad3
6/30/2003 3:37am,
lol osiris is correct and I'll tell you automatically that it;s probably Bullshit :)

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=110)

PizDoff
6/30/2003 9:22am,
"I have posted here not with the intent of arguing over the internet, but to hopefully clear up some of the rumors presented here. If anyone wishes to discuss this further ( or has a serious issue with the organization ), feel free to email me at [email protected] ."

you use the Sifu ranking? instead of Japanese style rankings? i'm confused

"My definition: getting hit so hard that you lose all body control for a given time, sometimes to complete unconsciousness."
you don't always need to hit hard dude
:)



AKKI sounds like an interesting place to train
BUT i don't like this knockout crap in the kempo (kenpo?) styles, clips don't impress

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
http://www.fightauthority.com/

cyrijl
6/30/2003 11:16am,
i just wanted to chime in and say the i think it is great that TheEdge883 has been honest about his previous experiences. Many come in with hidden agendas.

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