View Full Version : Venting over a decline in the making...

5/28/2003 5:45pm,
Or, how someone should not be teaching, but is, and the pain it causes me.

Okay, this is a rant of my own, but gets back to something I've talked to other martial artists about before as well. Talked to an old friend today, and one of my first instructors black belts, and the discusion came around to finding time to instruct. Its something we would both love to do if commitments to family and work didn't prevent it. Long story short for this part si that he mentioned one of the guys who used to be in the dojo teaching about an hour and a half from my home, and the guy asking my friend to come over for promotions to help him out.

Now here is where the rant really begins. The guy teaching, we'll call him "Chuck", was a fair student in the beginning. He started about five or six months after me, he wasn't too far behind in the ranks until he stopped regular training due to his job. He returns a year and ahalf later, gets a jelious streak when he sees folks have passed him in not only skill, but rank as well. The minor attitude he'd started with got worse, bullying younger, less experienced, students around, getting his bluff in through better technique, and if that failed, roughing them up during sparing. A spinning back kick to the groin was his favorite way to get things rolling when he wanted to stroke his ego. So we have Chuck training again, getting far enough up that he is starting to do minor instructing, warm up exiercizes, starting off some white belts etc. Full filling this part of the requirement doesn't take much technical ability, or afinity for teaching, so he did alright. The further he progressed though, the more he slacked off and his bad technique became apparent.

At this point I'm the assistant instructor at the dojo and spend most of my time teaching part of the class while the instructor taught the rest. While Chuck is getting his teaching time in for another promotion, I'm spending my time cleaning up behind him, correcting the technique he taught in kata, trying to save them from his horrid close rang techniques, and getting people to get their guard up and to stop leading with their face while fighting. He's getting closer to bb through God only knows what sort of intervention, I managed to miss two promotions he passed, so maybe it was divine will. Anyway, I get stuck correcting him when the instructor starts seeing the kinds of mistakes Chuck is making while instructing and while fighting. I would have made better progress beating my head against a wall of iron than I did trying to help clean this guy up. So I look like a moron that can't teach thanks to this guy. Eventually, due to a combination of his attitude, which was "I'm good enough that I don't really need to train", and piss poor technique and preformance in all aspects of the style, the instructor gave up on him. Chuck still came in for work outs, but it was made plain that he wasn't going to get his bb unless he made some very serious improvements. Chuck quietly goes to another school and gets through on a mass promotion night, saying my instructor had sent him there to test. So he got his bb by going around the back door so to speak.

So now this joker is teaching, less than two hours from my home. Unless he has made some very serious improvements in the last two years, which last I heard, hadn't happened, he's cranking out subpar students who he's fooling into thinking they can really fight. If he hasn't changed a lot, his instructing is a lot of ego stroking for him, beating up on people with less skill and calling it a 'lesson' without really helping them improve. So here is a guy putting a black mark on the style I first learned to fight with, disrespecting my ability by claiming liniage with he doesn't really have, and contributing his little bit to the loss of respect martial arts hvae been experiencing for years now.

I hear about my instructor going to a TKD place that opened up near his old dojo with his first instructor and closing the place down. I did something close once when some guys opened a school in an old resturaunt less than a mile from my house. The students they had got shown real quick that they weren't as good as they claimed to be. So here's the deal after the pissing and moaning set up. Last time I tried to get to this guy, after he snuck into a bb, he dodged me for a few months, avoiding the dojo and the few other schools he had frequented until I gave up trying to set up the match he'd agreed to after more than a little preasure was put on him. Now though, the guy is teaching, I figure he'll dodge me again, or want something so restrictive it will be pitter pat dodge and tag with all the teeth out of the fighting. Stepping up the contact level mid match would most likely land me in legal trouble with the guy, its something he tried to do before to an instructor that schooled him. So basically I'm frustrated as hell, and a touch jelious that this guy is teaching. Frustrated that I know he's screwing people up and basically taking their money for no real training, and jelious because I don't have the time to teach and train. That, and the days of closing down a school, with both people accepting what is going to happen, and the students realizing it too are pretty well over. End of rant, I'll fume until tomorrow night when I get to go train, I'll try to remember what he'd doing isn't important, only that I try to be one of those that holds the line and puts teeth back into the martial arts. And to make this worth posting, has anyone lived through a similar set up? Guy who was half-assed slinks off and begins teaching?

5/28/2003 5:59pm,
I feel your pain, man.

To be honest, there is not much you can do.

If you look at things soberly, they guy does have a perfectly legitimate black belt, and has exactly as much right to open up a dojo as you do. From what you wrote, he's not claiming to be anything that he's not, and not doing anything against the law. Therefore, I don't see any legal way that you can close him down. Nor do I see any way for you to get him to agree to a match. As long as he knows that you will school him, he will make sure that the two of you never fight. It's as simple as that really.

The only thing you can do is open up a school in the same neighboughood and drive him out of business by outcompeting him. Are you willing to do that?

I remain, Hapko3

5/29/2003 9:03am,
Not that I'd ever suggest it as a valid method of retribution, more of a fantasy, but...

tires are very fragile things...and very expensive to replace when slashed properly.

*whistles innocently*


"Wake me up.
Bid my blood to run.
I can't wake up.
Before I come undone.
Save me.
Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life

5/29/2003 9:20am,
I got confused somewhere in the middle... Is he the head instructor now where he teaches? If not, can't you approach his senior instructor and express your concerns?

Maybe there is a 'good' school in his area and you can somehow set up a tournament between his school and the other one. It'll make it obvious that his students are sub-par when they start losing to the other school.

I've gone to find myself. If I'm not back before I return, leave me there.

5/29/2003 10:04am,
Go there when he is teaching and offer to help show techniques with him , then in front of his senior students throw him around. If he is as bad as you say and has any ego(sounds like he does)he will agree and the whole thing will be settled in 3 mins.

Ever been punched in the mouth for talking too much : Xander ( vin diesal )in the movie TRIPLE X

Sensei Mak
5/29/2003 10:07am,
Id have to say that 84% of schools out there are taught by people such as this.

Fatality Dragon
5/29/2003 11:29am,
Kali you got a PM. If you need any advice or anything feel free to ask. BTW where are you? I may can some how stir things up with him and some idiot like Ashida Kim, Eric Bristol, etc... and get them to fight among themself. But I can always find another way to ruin people business ;-)

"Most likely to get hit by a meteor shower: Ballonknot" By PizDoff

The closest fight you can do that will look like any movie is scene from Harrison Ford movies

5/29/2003 11:42am,
Whoa whoa whoa...ok, all kidding aside for a second...

Guys, he's only VENTING! He didn't say he wanted someone to come kick this guy's ass! Christ, you'd have constant inter-school wars if that was how things worked. Geez. So he's a garbage teacher...big deal? As Sensei Mak pointed out, there are many of these. Is it the objective of this site to expose these people? Yes. Do we do that through organizing show-downs with them? I hope not. I'm not here to be part of a lynch-forum.

Besides, not to call Kail a liar or anything, but all we really have is his opinion/biased story. There are people I know who've been teaching for longer than I've been alive and I feel they are useless wastes of space...doesn't mean I'm right, or that I have a right to DO anything about it.

I recognize the desire to prevent the decline of an art or a lineage, but remember you can't always have good without some bad in your arts. This isn't fortune-cookie philosophy, it's pure science. For every above-average specimen out there, there's a below-average specimen. You can't cull the later out of the "species" without losing something in the process.

In other words..."just chill, y'all!"


"Wake me up.
Bid my blood to run.
I can't wake up.
Before I come undone.
Save me.
Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life

Omen Stone
5/29/2003 1:18pm,
but its much more fun to come at him with ninja swords! Lets see how great and grand he is.

"You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans."-George Carlin

deus ex machina
5/29/2003 1:20pm,

But I still say blast the bastard with a 12 gauge shottie.


"All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

5/29/2003 2:17pm,
About how many times can you kick a man in the nuts until he dies from internal bleeding?

You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hindlegs but if you get a group of men together you can create a herd of sheep.

5/29/2003 4:48pm,
Am I willing to try to put him down through showing the difference between what he's got and what I consider a better, and I ain't exceptional folks, teaching? Yes, I am, but its not viable due mostly to my job. I get to put in a minimun of 55hrs a week, kinda cuts into the time needed to run a place when your scedual is random from week to week. And yes, its his own school, he's the head man. If I though I could "work out" with him, and then get the challenge on that he would take, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Now I'm not advocating anyone harassing the guy, or sending out hunting parties intent on claiming his testicles for a prize or anything, just letting off some steam here. If you've read what I've posted in the past, I do believe in the viability of TMAs in general, when the training approach is right. Everything I know about this guy, seen and experienced with him is that his is not a good method. Its hobby karate passed off as serious training, and that is where I get steamed. My training means something to me, what he's doing belittles the sweat and blood I put into it, even if its indirectly.

CT, your right, there is no way of confirming wheather I'm the one that trains right or he's just someone that ticked me off. And your right about it being vent, thanks for reeling folks in a bit, appricate that. I guess what I don't want to see is the watering down of another style, especially the one that I started in and feel I owe a lot to. No one can regulate the martial arts, except other martial artists, and its our responcibility to to ensure that what gets passed on is the highest possible quailty. Each time someone trains a low quality person and convences them they are the real deal multiplies the problem. Those people who have been fooled go on to train others, and since their way of doing tends to be a lot easier than that of dedicated martial artists, they multiple faster. Basically, if we don't take steps to ensure the quality of as many students as possible is as high as possible, the 'real deal' MA folks will simply be out "bred".

Enough bitching for now, time to pack up the gear and go train, and solve this the only way I can really, working as hard as I can and ecouraging those I train with to do the same.

5/30/2003 2:27pm,

The fact that you understood where I was coming from and didn't get defensive speaks more to me than any claim you could ever make on here. Glad to be of service.

I noticed you've kept your style un-named. Is that on purpose?


"Wake me up.
Bid my blood to run.
I can't wake up.
Before I come undone.
Save me.
Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life