View Full Version : AMOK! - Knife Fighting Goodness or Cult?

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Sam Browning
7/17/2006 8:11pm,
"AMOK! Tribal Oath
Under penalty of knifers law
I swear to my AMOK! family
To always protect our practices
And uphold the AMOK! Knifer's Code"

Knifers law, give me a #$%^*&^ break. Since when does shanking anyone come with a code?

TKD Black Belt
7/17/2006 8:26pm,
Am I the only person who is somewhat bothered by someone listing 30 different MAs in their Bio? Okay, I'm exaggerating but I'm always left wondering why you wouldn't just stick with one or two things?

TKD Black Belt
Kenpo Yellow Belt
Pink Sash with Ruffles Fang Shen Do
30th Degree Ninja Gaiden MoFo
Brown Belt in Feeding my Dog

Sam Browning
7/17/2006 9:08pm,
point to consider in regards to weapon-
takes shorter time to be good at it

in terms of training time - consider this in general
-empty hands-longer training time
-blunt weapon-like fma shorter than above
-edge weapon-like fma even shorter than above
-projectile-even shorter than above
-firearms- u bet shortest time to train to be a real threat

*someone with one day training in firearms will have enough skill to be a big threat even u have the same equivalent.

as i can recall massad f ayoob who teaches LE/military/Civilian combat handgun do conduct a one day (8 hours) course for combat handgun.

This covers safe speed draw and holstering, proper operation of double action revolver, double or single action semi-automatic pistol, combat speed reloading with both. Student learns the Weaver, Chapman and Isosceles Turret two-hand techniques, "position shooting" such as "Stressfire Kneeling", and "Stressfire Star", and how to focus on target instead of sight picture with "stress point index", among many other pointers.

Ideal for the shooter with no previous hands-on training OR for the experienced instructor seeking techniques to streamline his own training procedures.

so do frontsights - firearm training institute syllabus being of
basics of gunhandling and marksmanship followed by malfunction clearances, reloads, and very challenging shooting drills such as Failure to Stop, multiple targets, man-against-man competition, and tactical simulators.

now for those who have fire arm experience, looking at the materials covered & someone like massad-participants would end up better handgunners than b4.

likelihood from handgunners experience, that one day training will bring a stronger skill set than b4.

If that someone is really blurr / slow learner, with the knowledge, training methods gain, they have something really valuable to take home to further hone their skill. in no time, i rather stay far far away from those folks.

as for some one like tom sotis-his credibility is quite a list but no one knows for sure what is taught in that one day training. do you ?

i wouldn't say for sure that people with one day training will not come out with stronger skill set than before. isn't this also relative to that someone's experience or background ? or the teacher's training methods ?

on one hand, in general i agree with colonelpong if its general martial arts like Tae Kwon Do, HapKido, BJJ etc. but on the other hand-i wouldnt dare say as its specific to the just the knife ?

besides-in general-in military-dun they hired external martial arts instructor for short stint period-anywhere from one day to a week only. the rest of the time-they are training on their own with the materials taught ? what is the difference here than if compared ?

just look at the korea military @dmz martiala arts/combative training - one day to a week or even the philippines marine corps taught by Leo Gaje - around a few days and not even full 8 hours.

guess its all relative - the proof of the pie lies in its being eaten
hope someone from this forum take up that 1 day training then we check out with him-is it like the firearms one day training

i take the combat handgun anyday than anything- anyone for a Glock ? LOL

But massad ayoob does not allow people to teach his system with only one day of training.

Bluto Blutarsky
7/18/2006 11:51am,
knife vs. knife is rare, truthfully I think the most realistic training against knife would be your brain and awareness. most people will attack with a knife from surprise.

Unless it is some psyco bitch girl with a kitchen knife who you just dumped for her hotter and younger sister :lol:

7/18/2006 3:36pm,
These guys may be completely legit but I have a hard time with a group that calls someone using a knife a "knifer" ... and talks about getting together for some " knifing " .

I seriously wonder what you could learn in one day to become to a Tribe Leader .


nice Kukris ...

I still stand by this post and am truly confused by the whole concept of their training .

7/18/2006 4:42pm,
I still stand by this post and am truly confused by the whole concept of their training .
As I understand it, Tribal Leader equates to "study group leader", not necessarily "instructor". I might be wrong about that though.

Don Gwinn
7/18/2006 4:56pm,
I've got a member of www.thehighroad.org who's going to be taking a one-day AMOK! seminar in the UK very soon. I referred him to this thread and an older one on AMOK!

Ayoob does indeed do one-day trainings, but as someone pointed out, when you're done with his course, he certifies exactly that--you completed the course and passed his testing at the end. Nothing more, nothing less--and if you called yourself an LFI instructor after that, he'd be in court to take away your house.

Rightly so in my opinion. I don't understand the idea that you can become an instructor in anything comprehensive, in any field, after a one-day introduction.

My acquaintance told me that he asked via email what to expect and was rebuffed. They didn't want to tell him what sorts of things would be taught or what would be going on, but they did tell him to expect full-speed sparring, which is a good sign. I guess we'll see what he thinks.

7/18/2006 8:56pm,
Thot I posted this earlier ??

Thot its clear from their website that- a Tribe Leader can be just a student or a very experienced instructor even in knifing

[ Who can start a Tribe?
A Tribal Leader can be any individual who has the initiative and motivation to organize a practice group on their own, or any group may designate a leader from amongst themselves.]

Guess for Dons fren who's going to UK-that doesnt prove anything-
Whatever its worth- Dons fren is nothing more than a study group leader when he practice with his group back home
- my 2 penny guess

for a study group leader - does that means theres nuthin for him to teach ?
its all relative - how long does a noobie takes to learn how to operate a gun in a shooting range ? > a day ?
ayoob can teach within a day;leo gaje's pekiti tirsia knifing arts can be taught to the philipines force recon marine in matter of days

Does it matters if a person after attending a day's training teaches or shares [whether in terms of study group leader or as organizer or as representative]
Isn't there many programmes like that ? Bujinkan ninjutsu, Circuit Fitness training, KMA like Hapkido hybrids and the list goes on and on etc

The BIG Kahuna says [So what if One day folks teaches BUT teaches what ?]
Basics can be taught in one day but de olde adage says [what is basic to one system is advance in another]

I prefer these one day folks teaches/shares so that we get to see What Amok! One day training is all about ? Anyone sharing details ?

Keep us posted Don

Sam Browning
7/19/2006 12:54am,
One day of training and you get to be a study group leader? Thats still ridiculous. I can't think of any art that would delegate instructional responsibilities after just eight hours of training, not even Krav Mega

Don Gwinn
7/19/2006 12:56am,
You're right, I missed that. I've been conditioned by other systems, like the guy doing "Apache Knife Fighting" here in the states, who does offer a weekend program to become a certified instructor, meaning you are now qualified to teach his entire system in your TKD dojang when you get home.

I agree, a "study group leader" sounds a LOT more reasonable than that.

As for newbies learning to shoot at a range, it depends on what you want them to be able to do. Hit a target on a square range, maybe do reloads? Sure. Shoot, move, shoot? Probably. Shoot while moving? You're pushing it, but yes, many people could do that. The fewer movies they've seen, the better.

Put it all together in one fluid piece of work? Improvise in entirely new situations? Teach others everything they need to know?
Nope. Hell no.

The gentleman I posted about is not my friend. I don't even know his name. He lives in the UK and posts in the Non-Firearm Weapons forum at The High Road, where I am a moderator. He asked me what I knew about Amok! and I had to admit: not much.

8/16/2006 1:30pm,
Just a head's up, I may be a part of a seminar with Tom Sotis come late September. I must admit that I've been very curious about AMOK! for a long time. Dogzilla of the DBs and Chad Getz of FCH were both fairly positive regarding their interactions with some of the AMOK! folk. I'll keep y'all posted.

Aloha, Poi

8/19/2006 7:48pm,
I dunno... all seems a bit... gay, really. I mean im cool with that I have gay friends and stuff. but yeah. :p

8/19/2006 8:34pm,
Using an o/head grip from what is basically a piss poor example of a horse stance.Street fighting you say!,wouldn't even waste time getting out of bed to deal with someone coming at me like that.Mind you it's what I would expect from a one day "Instructors Course".If you don't join on the spot do you get to keep the free ginzu knives?

Don Gwinn
8/19/2006 10:21pm,
Are you OK? Your sentences are coming out a little spastic.

Alex, the best fighting arts are all gay.

BJJ--Rolling and scrambling for back mount.

Muay Thai--Clenching "plum" style.

Sombo--Gi tops with hot pants. Much fondling of ankles and feet.

Wrestling--Referee position. 'Nuff said.

8/19/2006 10:30pm,
what my sentences? **** you asshole! sentences mine are fine: bitchass!

you have a point though, fighting arts are usually pretty gay. damn. my dads gonna be pretty heartbroken about this

8/20/2006 6:28am,
One day of training and you get to be a study group leader? Thats still ridiculous. I can't think of any art that would delegate instructional responsibilities after just eight hours of training, not even Krav Mega

It would depend on if there's any actual grading involved. ARMA study groups don't have any training requirements at all, but ARMA gradings are a dfferent thing. If "tribal leader" just means, "You have permission to start a study group," it's not really a big deal.