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DngrRuss1
6/28/2006 2:51pm,
Okay- I kow that I am going to get seriously flamed for this- maybe even tossed into Trollshido- but here goes:

Having been here at BS for almost as long as Omega and the crew, I have seen a lot of members pass through, read a lot of great posts and debates, and seen a lot of bullshit, misinformation, and wildly innacurate assumptions presented here as fact. The most egregious offender here, in my opinion, is grappling practitioners- and specifically BJJ.

What? BJJ practitioners spouting innacurate information? How is that possible since BJJ is rightous and holy and all other MA systems and practitioners are merely fools and heathens. You blasphemous bastard- BURN HIM!

Before I continue, let me qualify my rant by saying that I like grappling. We grapple in my school. I encourage my students to work the ground so that they understand the fundementals of grappling and, ultimately, get away from the ground. We are a self-defense oriented school. My students learn the 4 ranges of combat- kick, punch, trap, and grapple. They also train in weapons- mostly the knife and fighting stick. So, as a part of the complete SD picture, grappling is an important element.

Further, I know that the TMA and KA detractors will hammer me with the ever popular "TKD Sux" and "KA is a joke" statements to disprove whatever points I make here in this rant. Let me state that I am one of those KA stylists that is trying to bring respect back to HKD, TKD, et.al. The original intent and purpose of said arts was to train it's practitioners for SD and combat, not for them to be a fraudulant cash-cow to bilk parents out of their hard earned cash so that little Timmy can feel good about himself. No one knows better than me that most TKD does suck. No one knows better than me that many HKD teachers are full of **** and wouldn't know a fight from a poptart. Someone on another thread (which I am too lazy to search out) made the statement that, "it is not the style, but the person practicing it." Immediately after, someone else (a nutrider) said, "no, it isn't." Well, Mr. Nutrider, you are wrong.

There are so many MAs out there. And while there are many fraudulant instructors and schools, most of those systems have a root and basis in fact and usefull tactics and strategies. Have many been corrupted to the point of BS? Of course. But does that mean that all of them have and that they deserve your bile and ridicule? I think not. Instead, I think that we at BS should be embracing those isntructors that are trying to be honest and sincere to their particular arts, supporting them in their fight against frauds and liars in their areas, and not wagging our dicks at them and heap them into the pile of BS just because they don't do BJJ.

This site is not a BJJ only club. This site is not a front for BJJ marketing. This site is to expose fraud and BS. It should not be the old "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" pissing contest. That is useless and wastes both time and real discourse on MA.

Now, why am I ranting? Well, among all the threads and posts that decry everything other than BJJ, a little thread got posted about a BJJ guy who got his ass handed to him by 3 assailants. Now, this thread got tossed into Trollshido, and truly the thread starter may have actually been a Troll. But in reading the posts, the BJJ defenders made statements like "of course he lost, no one can beat 3 assailants," and "what a bunch of BS, this does not prove that BJJ is not the greatest of MAs handed down by God himself," yada yada yada. C'mon, let's be intellectually honest.

BJJ has it's weaknesses. ALL MAs HAVE THEIR WEAKNESSES. As impressed as we all were with Royce and BJJ in the early UFCs, I remember the moment when I knew that they made a big error and that they would ultimately pay for it. In one of the early UFCs, after Royce had just won one of his fights, a commentator interviewed Rickson outside of the ring. He made a statement that, to me, was the beginning of the end of BJJ domination. I will paraphrase- "I respect all of the fighters here. They are all tough and very talented. But I believe in JiuJitsu. I think that JiuJitsu is the best here." Huh? I sat up and thought about that statement. It wasn't "I think that Royce is the best fighter here," but a ringing endorsement of the system over the man. I knew then that he was selling BJJ, and using Royce as his poster boy. It was brilliant and worked like a charm, but then things started happening.

Strikers accepted that the ground had to be dealt with and started taking judo, wrestling, and BJJ to suplement their fight game. I think the Maurice Smith fight against Conan Silvera was a pinnacle fight for MMA. A huge, powerful BJJ fighter getting knocked out by a kickboxer. Hmm... kinda puts a hole in the "BJJ is the ultimate system" theory, huh? Now, look at fighters like Liddell. Not a great ground game, but he is well versed enough on the ground to escape it and beat the crap out of the grappler. We could debate this all day, but I think that it is self evident.

Getting back to the excuses that the BJJ nutriders gave to the multi-assailant issue- I have been in fights with 3 against me. More than once. I have been in fights with 2 against me. More than once. I was even in a scrap where it was me versus 8 people going at it. And guess what. Not only did I survive intact, but actually came out on top in those cases. And it wasn't because of my ground skills.

I have been training in MA for the better part of 30 years. 20 of those years I was also working as either a bouncer (night-clubs to seedy strip clubs and biker bars), bodyguard, and even in a psych hospital among other gigs. So, when you little competition BJJ nutriders proclaim yourselves to be the be-all-end-all of martial knowledge, you have to really impress me with more than a few competitions and theory.

I don't believe that it was TKD or HKD that won the day in my various scraps. HKD and TKD were merely the tools that I used to win the day. It was the man, not the style.

Again, I think that BJJ is fantastic. But it is only one of many concepts of combat and MA in the big picture. Go after the liars and frauds. Help us in the TKD and KA world weed out the charlatains. I support you and your training. How about showing the same respect to us? Believe me, when you stand on your soapbox and try to make yourself out to be a fount of knowledge and state that all others are false prophets- there will be people like me who will rail against you- and might actually prove you wrong.

Nothing but love...

Aesopian
6/28/2006 3:00pm,
tl;dr

Torakaka
6/28/2006 3:04pm,
I'm almost ashamed to admit that I only clicked on this thread because I saw Aesopian post in it

GranoblasticMan
6/28/2006 3:06pm,
Getting back to the excuses that the BJJ nutriders gave to the multi-assailant issue- I have been in fights with 3 against me. More than once. I have been in fights with 2 against me. More than once. I was even in a scrap where it was me versus 8 people going at it. And guess what. Not only did I survive intact, but actually came out on top in those cases. And it wasn't because of my ground skills.

:bssign:

Yeah, and I am the second coming of Jesus.

Now I'm tempted to make a thread about TKD idiot nutriders and talk about how I single-handedly destroyed the Soviet Union with BJJ...

Psycho Dad
6/28/2006 3:07pm,
So basically in your post you're saying that HKD and KA can train you to fight and win consistently against multiple opponents, and that anyone who says that no martial art short of weapons can train you against multiple opponents is a BJJ nutrider? Am I right? What about people who practice Sambo or Judo who say that no MA can train you to take on multiple opponents, are they BJJ nutriders as well? That's the vibe I seem to be getting from your post. What about this following quote?


It's pretty hard to take on 3 people...in fact for most it's pretty much impossible.

If you're attacked by multiple people and get out without serious injury that's a win in my book.

Besides, your friend was dumb for going to the ground in a 3 on 1 situation. What did he think would happen. He needs to learn to stay on his feet and fight standing up until he has an opportunity to run.

According to his profile, he's a judo practitioner with experience in ITF TKD? How does that make him a BJJ nutrider?

broken fingers
6/28/2006 3:11pm,
how many hate-BJJ threads have sprung up this week? About 3 in the last 2 days that I know of...

Ted Deadly
6/28/2006 3:11pm,
I armbarred my cat yesterday, lol!

GoldenJonas
6/28/2006 3:14pm,
Well written, good..............wait a minute!!! did you say "many 3 0n 1", "many 2 on 1", and a fucking "8 on 1".

Well, it WAS well written until you turned yourself into Phillip Rhee from the bar-room fight in Best of the Best circa 1989.

Happycrow
6/28/2006 3:16pm,
:bssign:

Yeah, and I am the second coming of Jesus.



Well, at least we can see which cheek you turned.

I had to take three once. If I could drag myself out of that, even as a broken bloody eggshell of my former self, I see no reason why somebody with vastly better conditioning and long experience couldn't do better.

MartialArtN00b
6/28/2006 3:16pm,
I think the basic point is that the KA has helped him to become a capable fighter despite all odds saying it to be impossible.

broken fingers
6/28/2006 3:17pm,
this TKD nutrider practically begged me to watch all 4 of the best of the best movies.

the first one was the best, however, the bar fight scene isn't any more credible than any other martial arts bar fight scene in any movie.

I here "brazil brawl" has a good BJJ bar fight scene with lot of flying armbars and such...

GranoblasticMan
6/28/2006 3:18pm,
Well written, good..............wait a minute!!! did you say "many 3 0n 1", "many 2 on 1", and a fucking "8 on 1".

Well, it WAS well written until you turned yourself into Phillip Rhee from the bar-room fight in Best of the Best circa 1989.
Another delusional LARPer...

And WTF is with all these idiots coming out of the woodwork with long rambling posts this week?


Well, at least we can see which cheek you turned.

I had to take three once. If I could drag myself out of that, even as a broken bloody eggshell of my former self, I see no reason why somebody with vastly better conditioning and long experience couldn't do better.

Even if that's true, fighting multiple opponents isn't a fucking linear scale of difficulty. Fighting two guys may be twice as hard as one, but when you have three free-thinking able-bodied assholes ready to beat your face in, that's a hell of a lot more difficult... Let alone eight?!

I'm sorry, but unless you're fighting blind circus midgets, I don't buy the winning against eight attackers story.

Shaolinz
6/28/2006 3:19pm,
You've been here a long time. Thats awesome. You also just jumped onto this month's troll bandwagon. Congrats.

P.S. I blame you Omega. You showed the trolls a new subject they could cling to. (Not really calling the OP a troll its just a general statement)

daGorilla
6/28/2006 3:22pm,
So basically in your post you're saying that HKD and KA can train you to fight and win consistently against multiple opponents, and that anyone who says that no martial art short of weapons can train you against multiple opponents is a BJJ nutrider? Am I right? What about people who practice Sambo or Judo who say that no MA can train you to take on multiple opponents, are they BJJ nutriders as well? That's the vibe I seem to be getting from your post. What about this following quote?



According to his profile, he's a judo practitioner with experience in ITF TKD? How does that make him a BJJ nutrider?

I think all he is saying is:

1) Ultimately, virtually all martial arts styles (karate, TKD, etc.) come from effective fighting arts (or effective fighters).

2) Any art can be effective if trained properly. Karate/TKD/HKD does not necessarily equate to McDojo suckage. BJJ, Kickboxing, Judo etc. does not automatically equate to kick-ass fighting art.

3) Every range of combat is important; there is nothing wrong with emphasizing one over another, as long as you learn enough of the others and don't leave a gaping hole in your skill set.

4) Style is only important in how well it is expressed by the fighter.

I think that captures the worst of it. I suspect it was inspired by all the BJJ nutriding that goes on around here -- which, I must admit, is pretty damn rampant (and I say that as a current BJJ student).

I would add that alot of the nutriding is generally the product of the younger generation (let's say under 30) who are often exuberant but short-sighted, in the greater scheme of things.


ook ook.

-daGorilla

UpaLumpa
6/28/2006 3:22pm,
Before I continue, let me qualify my rant by saying that I like grappling. We grapple in my school. I encourage my students to work the ground so that they understand the fundementals of grappling and, ultimately, get away from the ground.So you teach crappling?
Nothing in several years of hapkido made me qualified to grapple, let alone instruct.

WhiteShark
6/28/2006 3:24pm,
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4230/nutrider7yv.gif


My pet peeve:
There are NOT 4 ranges of fighting. Trapping is NOT a range. Stop living a lie and learn the definition of grappling.