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cyrijl
5/21/2003 11:10am,
How do you fail a student and expect them to stay? Or, how can you fix someone's technique who just has no coordination?

I'd like to see all those people leave, but it's not my livelihhod on the line. I had a guy with absolutely no coordination come up to me and complain about someone who has no coordination. They both are like flailing apes at banana time. But many people see it as a perosnal insult to fail a test rather than as a sign that their technique needs improvement. Ideas?

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"you think you're tough? try riding on the back of a moto in downtown Phnom Penh"---jzf

"i left my heart in laos, but my wallet in cambodia

Choke
5/21/2003 11:30am,
Well hold back the test till their ready!

_________________________________
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

Zujitsu Ka
5/21/2003 11:32am,
I have seen people fail but not because they arew uncoordinated. Everyone has their own black belt level. As you know some people are better fighters than others. Not every black belt is supposed fight professionally. If you don't try hard enough, give the effort, put the time in you should fail. But I will not test anyone until they are ready. If I think they need to work on something I make sure they do but I would not test them if they couldn't do it. I would tell them they aren't ready to test.

Shura
5/21/2003 11:33am,
only thing for it

be honest with your students


How many Zen masters does it take to change a light bulb?

> Two. One to change it, and one not to change it.

rmclain
5/21/2003 11:44am,
Cyrijl,

I recommend that the teacher make a policy where the prospective testing students have to ask permission to take the upcoming exam. The teacher should know if the student is ready for the exam. If not, then the teacher should tell the student to wait until a future exam, but give them specific things to improve upon until the next exam. A short private lesson could help point out corrections to the student, and give them things to work on.

I wouldn't worry too much about losing the student. If they[the students] have a good attitude and respect for the teacher, then they will realize that the teacher is trying to help them, not belittle them. If they quit over it, then they have the wrong attitude and should not be a student of martial art at all.

It should be important for an instructor to produce quality students and not conduct a "race" for belt colors.

Shura
5/21/2003 11:48am,
True, you'll find out if what they want is recognition of their skill or just a belt to show off


How many Zen masters does it take to change a light bulb?

> Two. One to change it, and one not to change it.

Miguksaram
5/21/2003 12:17pm,
One suggestion to minimize failing at a the main examination is to do stripe testing between tests. This is a way to get them prepared for the main test as well as point out what they need to work on. It is a lot easier to fail someone at a stripe test without hurting their feelings or insulting them. Kind of like a pop quiz. It will show them what they need to work on prior to the big examination.

Once the examination has come and gone and they still fail, you have at least given them a fair warning on what they were doing wrong. Rather or not they prepared for it is their own problem.

BTW....some people look at stripe testing as a way to suck more money from a client. This is not so. Do not charge the students for this type of examination. Hold a couple of them each one focusing on different levels of what they need to know. Example first stripe test, they need to have their new kicking techniques down, second stripe test the need to know their new form....etc..

Plus

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

Bolverk
5/21/2003 12:21pm,
How do you fail a student and expect them to stay? Or, how can you fix someone's technique who just has no coordination?

I'd like to see all those people leave, but it's not my livelihhod on the line. I had a guy with absolutely no coordination come up to me and complain about someone who has no coordination. They both are like flailing apes at banana time. But many people see it as a perosnal insult to fail a test rather than as a sign that their technique needs improvement. Ideas?

The only way to do it is in a positive manner. Find the quality that they do posess and emphasize it. Give them constructive criticism, and let them know what they have to do to improve. Most people will respond positivly if you approach them in a positive manner.

Sincerely,

Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.

CrimsonTiger
5/21/2003 12:39pm,
Bah, just fail their asses and watch them cry.

I didn't get any consolation during my green belt test (which I failed). In fact, I was told that I was "disgusting". Anyone care to guess how that made me feel?

Needless to say, I'm still around, but that type of attitude does tend to alienate people. Myself included. I'm pretty thick-skinned, but even I didn't appreciate that. If I fail, I failed. Fine. But don't be negative. And don't make them wait a zillion years to retest. Give them a deadline. Two weeks to a month. If more than that is needed, they shouldn't have been testing in the first place.

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"Wake me up.
Bid my blood to run.
I can't wake up.
Before I come undone.
Save me.
Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life

Fisting Kittens
5/21/2003 1:00pm,
Everyone has their own black belt level



cuz who needs standards right?

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Shut up and train

stanlee
5/21/2003 1:14pm,
An instructor or senior student should be there to help these people, not judge them. If they need a little bit more help with a certain thing let them know and help them. Be honest with them. Martial arts are not about getting someone to black belt as fast as they can its about helping people. How are you helping someone if you lie to them and pass them on a test if they do not deserve to pass? There are enough black belts in the martial arts nowadays who don't desrve it. Harsh? yes, but it's true. A student will not hate you for making them do something right......you know, thats what there there for. Being honest can be a very hard thing espeacially when it might hurt someone elses feeling, but after they get through that point they will realize you were just trying to help and look up to you even more.

Stanlee

Sam Browning
5/21/2003 1:17pm,
I liked Zujitsu's post for the part where he said he's tell the person they aren't ready.

Zujitsu Ka
5/21/2003 1:34pm,
Fisting Kittens, If that was in regard to my comment its not about standards. Teh standards are set. I cannot expect my students to do things the way I do, thats impossible. We have have different body types and move in different ways. I do not want to make any clones anyway. I want my students to learn what best works for them not what works best for me. I may be more athletic than some but that doesn't mean because your are stiff or rigid you can't make a rank. It also doesn't mean you will not find people of the same rank that have better technique. Just my philosiphy and the way Iwas trained. We don't want robots or clones, just people who can defend themselves to the best of their ability.

Zujitsu Ka
5/21/2003 1:37pm,
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else." "
--Judy Garland

Greese
5/21/2003 1:38pm,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

cuz who needs standards right?

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Shut up and train
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

No, that is the reason that some people should neve be black belts.

TaeBo_Master
5/21/2003 1:45pm,
My TKD teacher did it like this: While you had a belt, he would give you stripes on that belt for knowing certain parts of the testing requirements, i.e. the form for that level, one-steps, board breaks, etc. He would also give you a red stripe (the others were black) when you were ready to test. This is different from miguksaram's proposal only in that he wouldn't hold stripe testings.. but instead he would just evaluate you as you went along and gave you the stripes as you earned them.

My WT instructor does it like this: He holds testings whenever there are enough students that are ready to progress to the next level. Sometimes he'll announce the testings, sometimes he won't. But either way, he'll tell the students that are ready to test that they're ready and to show up for the testing. If he announces the test.. and some students aren't ready to test... he'll say something like "testing is next Monday during regular class time, so those people that I've told are ready to test, make sure you're here."

Both teacher's methods worked pretty well it seems to me.

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --