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Shaolinz
6/04/2006 7:38pm,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6300774408577460938&q=muay+thai

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2886179749115315215&q=muay+thai (Crapple or Grapple?)

Is this simply bullshido? or is it just someone trying to teach true traditional muay thai chaiya?

isol8d
6/04/2006 8:04pm,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6300774408577460938&q=muay+thai

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2886179749115315215&q=muay+thai (Crapple or Grapple?)

Is this simply bullshido? or is it just someone trying to teach true traditional muay thai chaiya?


Wouldn't have been better to link their
website? (http://muaychaiya.blogspot.com/)

After reading their history of Muay thai Chaiya, I can say it is about as complicated and unsubstantiated as the history of a lot of kung fu. Not to say it's bullshido, but claiming lineage to bare knuckle fights 800 years ago, well....

I do like where he calls out contemporary MT....


"....Thai boxing is “an art that has been developed by our ancestors as a national heritage to their children for thousands of years.” The genuine Thai boxing is best performed by Thais. Unfortunately, the Thai boxing we see today in rings is not the true Thai boxing.

By Kru Praeng
(Amornkrit Pramuan)
Muay Chaiya Boxing Foundation"

Shaolinz
6/04/2006 8:08pm,
Nah I linked the videos because from them you can easily find the website if your brain functions at all.

Torakaka
6/04/2006 8:08pm,
Kru Praeng can eat a dick. Those false thai boxers who fight in the ring would stomp his ass.

alex
6/04/2006 8:10pm,
first vid looked like crap to me. what the hell was going on in that first video with the prayer stance blocking? its like taking a basic double forearm block, then making it look ridiculous, then bending right over so the next time you do it you get a knee upside the head.

second vid was ok- whats with the guy wearing a kung fu outfit with a sash though?

DdlR
6/04/2006 9:26pm,
first vid looked like crap to me. what the hell was going on in that first video with the prayer stance blocking? its like taking a basic double forearm block, then making it look ridiculous, then bending right over so the next time you do it you get a knee upside the head.


I think that this clip demonstrates a series of self defense techniques taking intelligent advantage of a posture that is ubiquitous in Thai culture.

Going by the information on the website, Muay Thai Chaiya is a traditional (pre-Western boxing influence) form of Thai martial art. The "prayer stance" is typical of many predominantly Buddhist countries and is performed habitually when thanking someone, asking for something, showing respect, offering an apology, greeting, bidding someone farewell, etc. It also happens to offer a tactical advantage if the person you're talking to suddenly attacks you, which is (I suspect) what is being demonstrated in the video clip.

By pressing both hands together you create a triangle shaped wedge that is much stronger than a single-armed block - as in the double-forearm block. The position of the hands, arms, head and torso in "prayer position" also offers a great way to interrupt an attacker's movement while keeping the defender well covered.

This "hidden" form of guard stance also makes a great deal of sense from a legal/eyewitness point of view. If the defender was to square off against the attacker in a typical Thai boxing stance, then onlookers would see two men about to fight, and the opponent could claim that he was startled or felt threatened by the defender's stance. If the defender assumes a prayer position, the onlookers will see one man threatening another who is trying to apologise or show respect. It's just smart tactics.

Lane
6/04/2006 9:27pm,
Let's see them get in the ring. If they win, then I'll call them muay thai. If they get their asses handed to them, then they're crap.

elbowtko
6/04/2006 11:26pm,
Muay thai is suppose like any art is suppose to constantly evolve into a even more refined art.

That goes for Karate or TKD which eventualy became kickboxing.

However there are still some pricks out there who train traditionally and still believe it is an ultimate art... Theres nothing wrong with training in these traditional arts, just don't expect it to work very well againts BETTER more modern systems.

Just as you would not expect an archer to beat a riflemen, don't bring a bow to war.

Anna Kovacs
6/04/2006 11:30pm,
All the crap about what comprises "real" "traditional" muay thai is annoying. Muay thai is what it is today, past incarnations of dubious effectiveness and origin should be considered a seperate entity imo.

DdlR
6/04/2006 11:38pm,
I think that the Muay Thai Chaiya people would argue that some valuable elements of the art can be lost during the transition to sport. Some of these elements are cultural (important in societies that honor their ancestors) and others are technical/tactical.

Same as modern fencing - it's a great sport and the ultimate product of evolution from the martial art of sword fighting, but the artificial conventions of sport fencing mean that many combat effective techniques and training methods have been dropped. Three hundred years ago, men learned fencing to survive duels and streetfights, and the art included disarms, grappling, throws, pommel smashes, etc. All these techniques are deemed too dangerous to be practiced in sport fencing, and so the modern sport is that much less effective as a martial art.

Upyu
6/04/2006 11:39pm,
Thought I'd elaborate on Ddlr's post.

It's actually just expressing a concept not a tehnique.
I'm not sure if they were thinking this far when demoing it, but the "prayer" position generally expresses balancing up and down forces, which you "compress" to the middle (the start of the prayer position).
All techniques you do regardless of shape are supposed to contain this. Its simple (actually not so simple hehe) efficient biomechanics.
It's the difference between using brute force and an unconnected body to do the job, vs a well connected/well trained body to generate extremely efficient force based on the bodies desire to remain in balance.

The guy over here in Japan at Aunkai does a similar demo. Only, he knocks you on your ass when you do it (regardless of the person's size) :)

PS
The guy doing the demo sucked ass tho.
And I'll bet he would be knocked out by the "false" muay thai fighters you see in the ring.

Anna Kovacs
6/05/2006 12:03am,
I've never seen one of these "traditional muay thai" videos that showcased any actual sparring.

HwangJangLee
6/05/2006 1:56am,
OH i know what it is, Sawaddee means greeting or hello in Thai so that must mean that its like if someone attacked you while you were greeting them. So its like self defence when your greeting.

Gezere
6/05/2006 4:38pm,
I think that this clip demonstrates a series of self defense techniques taking intelligent advantage of a posture that is ubiquitous in Thai culture.

Going by the information on the website, Muay Thai Chaiya is a traditional (pre-Western boxing influence) form of Thai martial art. The "prayer stance" is typical of many predominantly Buddhist countries and is performed habitually when thanking someone, asking for something, showing respect, offering an apology, greeting, bidding someone farewell, etc. It also happens to offer a tactical advantage if the person you're talking to suddenly attacks you, which is (I suspect) what is being demonstrated in the video clip.

By pressing both hands together you create a triangle shaped wedge that is much stronger than a single-armed block - as in the double-forearm block. The position of the hands, arms, head and torso in "prayer position" also offers a great way to interrupt an attacker's movement while keeping the defender well covered.

This "hidden" form of guard stance also makes a great deal of sense from a legal/eyewitness point of view. If the defender was to square off against the attacker in a typical Thai boxing stance, then onlookers would see two men about to fight, and the opponent could claim that he was startled or felt threatened by the defender's stance. If the defender assumes a prayer position, the onlookers will see one man threatening another who is trying to apologise or show respect. It's just smart tactics.


This is tH3 c0rR3cT

Many Buddhist arts have the same techniques. In Japan its called ogamite and I seen thos exact same techniques used in various Ryukyu and Japanese arts.

Shaolinz
6/05/2006 5:05pm,
Well covered unless they drop an elbow to the back of your head...oh wait this isn't a defence against Muay Thai.

Torakaka
6/05/2006 5:11pm,
I guess there are enough people in thailand that do muay thai that you'd have to worry about a round kick on the street