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Miguksaram
5/16/2003 8:57am,
Should they have street fighting experience? I mean if you are learning self-defense, should they have real self-defense experience to be eligible to teach? If not how can you trust what they are teaching?

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

Zujitsu Ka
5/16/2003 9:21am,
Anyone who joins a school should watch a class before they join. Ask questions like what kind of training do you do ? SPort or Self-defense ? What style is it ? I do have my own school and have had a few fights but I don't think it should be manditory. Just because someone avoids fights better than someone else. You will also know after a few classes by not only what your instructor is teaching but how he teaches. Personally I believe all systems have something to offer. I also believe and have been trained and traiin my students to develop techniques based on foundation as aoppsed to prgrammed responses. I don't believe in that. A programmed response means a specific attack and on the street there is no way of knowing what will happen. If you train for ahy possibility than it doesn't matter you will be prepared as possible.

If you give a man a fish he eats for a day. If you teach him how to fish he eats for lifetime. The same is true with Martial Arts.

If you teach a student a technique against specific attacks he may survive those attacks. If you teach him the concepts behind the techniques he learns a plethora of repsonse to any attack.

sensei
5/16/2003 9:27am,
Yes it is important to teach self defence in your Dojo.

In my traditional Dojo I teach Judo. I demonstrate self defence techniques with sections of martial arts in them a quick example is.

He attacks with a straight right (Boxing)
I shoulder roll (Boxing)
Elbow to the teeth (Thai Boxing)
Silat or Judo foot sweep (Silat/Judo/Ju Jitsu)
Face stomp (Karate/Ju Jitsu)

This way I never get asked the question. "What can I do against this type of fighter". In our Randori I also make them take their Gi tops off to make them use the body's natural handles and I also have an all in session where anything goes, including finger snapping.

Kuroneko
5/16/2003 9:28am,
The teacher should at least have sparring experience...

______________
I've gone to find myself. If I'm not back before I return, leave me there.

aelius
5/16/2003 9:28am,
No they shouldn't, unless they are specifically teaching 'street self defence' and making claims that their system works on the street. You can be a great teacher without actually having to experience what you teach. It's about communication and demonstration e.g. you can teach geography without having travelled the world, weak example, but it illustrates the point.

Miguksaram
5/16/2003 11:21am,
Ok...if you feel that they don't need that experience how can you know if what they are teaching you is going to work when push comes to shove.

Zujitsu as an instructor who has been in altercations do you teach your techniques based only on theory of "What if" scenarios or do you teach based on the what you experienced to work or not work.

Aelius,

Aren't instructor teaching Self-Defense? What other types are there besides street self-defense? When you teach geography it is based on actual facts where as in MA without fighting experience you are teaching theory only.



Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

poet
5/16/2003 11:35am,
miguksaram -
"When you teach geography it is based on actual facts where as in MA without fighting experience you are teaching theory only."

This is from a student perspective:
Theory is something that has not been proven.
The techniques strategies and principles of MA xxx has been proven over history right?

A high school teacher isn't a mathamatician but teaches math when I was done learning what I could there I sought better teachers, college.

Is MA instruction similar learn what one has if it has limits seek more or better?

"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right."
Ashleigh Brilliant

HAPKO3
5/16/2003 11:37am,
I have a problem with "streetfighting" instructors who have not actually been in a street fight since grade school. By that I don't mean that you have to be an ex-thug to teach martial arts, but I think that an instructor owes it to the students to be very honest when it comes to his qualifications. And if I was looking to become a "streetfighter" whatever the **** that means, I would probably look for someone with relevant experience (i.e. a thug) and not someone who can throw high kicks.

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I remain, Hapko3

Fisting Kittens
5/16/2003 11:41am,
Is it necessary for an instructor to have been in fights? No

Am I more likely to listen to an instructor that has? Yes

Do I believe most people who talk about their fights? No

Is it important for me to have an instructor who has been succesful in MA full contact competition? Absolutely

I WILL NOT EVER train under someone who hasn't competed full contact. I don't trust them. They are often delusional as to what works and what doesn't (unless they are a fairly young instructor who was taught by someone who did full contact competition)


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Shut up and train

HAPKO3
5/16/2003 11:43am,
Fisting Kittens: I agree 100%

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I remain, Hapko3

BSH
5/16/2003 12:02pm,
Define MA full contact competition. Once it is regulated/controlled, it loses its effectiveness. At least to some degree. My answers depend on what your student is looking for and why they want to train a MA. Not everyone wants to learn a MA for self-defense, but instead for health, personally harmony, comradarie, etc. Your school should know what they are teaching/promoting.

I still disagree that watching a class will show you anything about a school. In a school where there is a structured learning program, you will only see pieces of instruction because it is constantly building on prior material and constantly correcting and perfecting. You are more likely to get an incorrect impression of the instruction than you would if you spent 15 minutes talking with the instructor.

Jamoke
5/16/2003 12:38pm,
what the fukk, are you people air heads? it all depends on what your looking for in a martial arts program. If your looking to be a tournament sparring competitor than you join a TKD school, because we all know tkd practitioners can't fight their way out of knee deep **** out on the streets. But they seem pretty good for the fairy shop sparring they teach people.

If you want to learn how to fight, you go to a guy/girl who knows how to fukking fight. how do you know if they know how they fight? don't worry you will know if you have any brains, in which many people don't.

you want to learn forms, go to a kung fu guy/girl, the teach you all about the performing arts.

"If attacked fight, and fight to kill"

Miguksaram
5/16/2003 12:48pm,
Poet,

"The techniques strategies and principles of MA xxx has been proven over history right?"

Well yes and no. Some of the TMA's that we pracitced my have been tried and verified back when they were developed. However, would those techniques be valid today? So they may have been proven in the past, but the may not have been proven today.

Fisting,

When you say you would learn under someone who learned under someone who did full contact, how far back would you take that? In other words, would you take training from a man who learned under a man who learned under a man who was in combat? Would you never learn any type of Japanese Jujitsu because these people don't really have any mainstream competition?

HAPK03, the original question was not if you should be made into a street fighter, I was more cuirous about learning self-defense under someone who has never been in a street altercation or has had to defend themselves.

Truthfully, how many people get into street altercations? If you are getting into a lot of them I think you need to smile more. :)

BSH, I would agree that there are other reasons why people decide to take a martial arts class, but the bottom line to the majority of people learning it would be self defense. When I have asked people why they joined I would say 90% of them start with self defense and then tack on weight loss, health, ect. as an after thought.

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

Miguksaram
5/16/2003 12:49pm,
Good point Jamoke. :) Rough intro, but good point.

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html

HAPKO3
5/16/2003 12:57pm,
miguksaram : I would be very hesitant to learn anything from a teacher who does not have real life relevant experience in what he is teaching. Simple as that.

If I wanted to learn "self defence" I would learn it from someone with significant experience in that area. This would almost certainly be either a former criminal, or a law enforcement oficer of some sort. I would definitly not go to, say, my surrent instructor, who has been in his share of fights, and is a former professional kickboxer, but is by no means an expert on surviving the "mean streets". But then again, if self defence was my primary concern, I would not be doing unarmed martial arts in the first place.

The same way, if I wanted to be a competitive kickboxer, I would find a teacher who competes or has competed in the past, and not some "street" badass or a police expert on self defence.

If you want to learn something, look for a teacher who has experience in that particular area. The martial arts instruction market is pretty saturated, and as long as you live in a decent sized city, you have a pretty good choice of places to train.

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I remain, Hapko3

Fisting Kittens
5/16/2003 12:58pm,
^^^^^^-I agree completely

I'm only comfortable with direct transmission of knowledge. Meaning 1 degree of separation from the instructor with full contact experience.

After that it gets sketchy.



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Shut up and train

Edited by - fisting kittens on May 16 2003 12:59:45