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View Full Version : Why did Frank Hargrove leave the Okinawan Shorin-Ryu ShorinKan Karate Kobudo?



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Kallx
5/18/2006 11:42am,
I recently checked out a new dojo that hand lineage through Frank Hargrove (NASKA). The instructor claims he is no longer associated with that organization due to how they structure their fees, but they way he mentioned it seemed there was more to the story than that.

So after ALOT of research I came across a review for a book by Frank Hargrove that mentioned he was kicked out of the International Shorin Ryu organization even though he claims on his website (http://www.usashorinryu.org/) hes still apart of. I checked the international site (http://www.karateshorinkan.com/main.html)and his dojo and name are not even listed or mentioned anywhere. Now this is assuming that I'm even looking in the right place/website.

So I was hoping that from the vast knowledge of this community I could dig up and learn the truth.

Kallx

ihatemcdojos
6/26/2007 10:26pm,
*****

Fantasy Warrior
6/26/2007 11:00pm,
Kyoshi Doug Perry is the President of Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan in America and everywhere else in the world outside of Okinawa.
http://www.shorinryushorinkan.com/

Lineage war?
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3448/trainwreck5vucm5.gif


You say lots of bad stuff about this Hargrove fellow, and you are quite possibly right, but is your brand of karate any better than his?

That Perry chap's website says "Karate is unique. It is the most powerful of all the martial arts."

Karate isn't particularly unique, it's much like Tang Soo Do, Taekwondo etc.

And the explicit claim that it is the most powerful martial art contradicts the bit about humility, plus it'd need to get proven, which it hasn't. In fact, it's an outright lie on the part of the style, grand master or whoever wrote it and/or demonstrates the level of dellusion in this brand of karate.


What's the pricing of the non-hargrave Shorin Ryu brand karate in US?

Sam Browning
6/26/2007 11:04pm,
I want to find out if "ihatemcdojos" can provide proof, (newspaper articles, copies of police reports etc) showing that Mr. Hargrove was actually arrested for such a crime and later convicted.

Fantasy Warrior
6/26/2007 11:21pm,
A quick browse of the official site (the anti-Hargrove bunch) provides a load of links to the 'official' Shorin Ryu Shorinkan brand schools in US. I clicked a random link to one of them called amusingly "Happy Dragons Martial Arts" and clicked on the photos section to get a general feel for what they are about in this org. This was what greated me, labelled "Instructor training":

http://www.happydragonmartialarts.com/photos/albums/userpics/DSC00455.jpg
http://www.happydragonmartialarts.com/photos/albums/userpics/normal_DSC00438.jpg
http://www.happydragonmartialarts.com/photos/albums/userpics/normal_DSC00445.jpg

Looks rather silly to me. Camo??? RBSD sucks month should be followed by Quasi-RBSD sucks even more month.

And from another site, here's a photo of the "official" head guy in US, Perry, twisting wrists in what appears to be a "self-defense" situation. No wonder Karate is so unique and powerful!
http://owleskarate.com/images/08-17-06%2009.JPG

Kobayashi
6/27/2007 12:30am,
You are correct. Frank Hargrove is no longer associated with Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan, or with our grandmaster Hanshi Shugoro Nakazato.
http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/014/001/index.html

In the early 1990s it was discovered that Frank Hargrove had been using his dojos to make money for himself, even embezzling and stealing (which he later spent time in jail for, more than once). Hargrove was basically excommunicated from the organization and has no affiliation whatsoever with us. He should not even be wearing our patch.


I heard a similar story from my old Shorin-Ryu instructor, probably six years or so ago. However, I was told that Hargrove was in charge of collecting money for Hansi Nakazato and then kept it for himself. I did not hear about any jail time but that does not mean it didn't happen.

By the way, ihatemcdojos is incorrect about the Renshi thing. I know this because I have attended seminars led by Kyoshi Haley and Perry with several Renshi's in attendance - my instructor being one of them.

Askari
6/27/2007 6:59am,
Oh, and not to mention the ridiculous "Renshi Belts" that his instructors wear. There is no such thing as a "Renshi Belt" in our system. You hold a black belt until you reach 7th degree, then you are awarded a red and white Kyoshi belt. If anyone in our system ever asks you to call them "Renshi" head for the nearest door!

By the way, ihatemcdojos is incorrect about the Renshi thing. I know this because I have attended seminars led by Kyoshi Haley and Perry with several Renshi's in attendance - my instructor being one of them.
Holy rank inflation batman. You guys are telling us that there are a whole lot of guys with fancy titles and fancy belts and they all argue over who has teh real. Sounds like a fun group.

:qshatter:

WhiteShark
6/27/2007 7:20am,
"Several Renshis" Bwahahahaha

I wonder if Mas Oyama's soul cries itself to sleep every night? Oh Karate, how did you fall so far?

ihatemcdojos
6/27/2007 7:42am,
*****

Sam Browning
6/27/2007 8:08am,
proof of theft please.

ihatemcdojos
6/27/2007 8:14am,
*****

Kobayashi
6/27/2007 8:36am,
Holy rank inflation batman. You guys are telling us that there are a whole lot of guys with fancy titles and fancy belts and they all argue over who has teh real. Sounds like a fun group.

:qshatter:


"Several Renshis" Bwahahahaha

I wonder if Mas Oyama's soul cries itself to sleep every night? Oh Karate, how did you fall so far?

The seminar that I'm referring to had I believe 5 Renshi's (5th and 6th dans) and were from all across the country - they all had around 15-20 years of experience in the Shorinkan.

ihatemcdojos
6/27/2007 9:23am,
*****

Sam Browning
6/27/2007 9:40am,
Unfortunately, there are McDojos everywhere, and unfortunately, Shorin-Ryu has them-- they descend from Frank Hargrove.

In order to find proof of his time served in jail, you would most likely need to run a criminal background check on him. He is currently near Hampton, VA. However, finding personal information about him through the web proves difficult because there is a delegate in VA with the same name that floods internet searches.

Listen up you idiot, and pay attention. You wrote:



In the early 1990s it was discovered that Frank Hargrove had been using his dojos to make money for himself, even embezzling and stealing (which he later spent time in jail for, more than once). Hargrove was basically excommunicated from the organization and has no affiliation whatsoever with us. He should not even be wearing our patch.

Its your allegation, not Bullshido.net's that he's been convicted of theft and other crimes related to his running of martial arts schools. SO IT IS YOUR BURDEN, NOT OURS TO PROVIDE PROOF OF THIS ALLEGATION.

Since you dislike him so much go out, do the necessary spadework and then post the results here. That way we will know to take this claim seriously and that you are not someone who just bears an unfounded grudge.

kwoww
6/27/2007 10:33am,
It sounds like a cover story anyway, and he was kicked out for a reason nobody wants to say because it would be embarrassing to Shorin-Ryu.

ihatemcdojos
6/27/2007 11:00am,
*****