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View Full Version : Muay Thai, TKD and Karate round houses explained.



Blad3
5/10/2003 9:51pm,
This is from www.KyokushinMail.com:

Here are some simple diagrams with basic explanations of kicks from different arts:

Muay Thai :

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/KickInstruction_files/Kick4.jpe

Explanation:

With the full twist of your hip, hit the shin against the opponent's leg and body, instep against the head. They are noted especially for their use of shin.


The hip motion is the key to its power. Sometimes they kick while keeping their leg almost straight, executing solely by the hip motion.
The shin is a sensitive area but can be a very strong weapon if trained. Many Thai boxers have callasis on their shins, as Karate fighters have on their knuckles.

Objective of Muay Thai kick: POWER.

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Kyokushin karate:

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/KickInstruction_files/Kick1.jpe

Raise your knee.
With the twist of the hip and the snap of the knee, hit your shin against the opponent's leg and body, your instep against the head

The key is to feel your body weight dropping onto the target with your foot at the point of impact.

Objective: POWER

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Shotokan/traditional Karate:

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/KickInstruction_files/Kick2.jpe

Raise the knee.
With the snap of the knee, hit with the ball of your foot, as your body still faces your opponent for the readiness.
Quickly retrieve the foot back to avoid getting caught.

The other foot is well grounded all the time for the control.
It is said that the use of the ball of the foot in kick can be more effective.

Objective: CONTROL

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Tae Kwon Do:

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/KickInstruction_files/Kick3.jpe

The body leans backward for extra distance.
Using the snap of the knee, hit with the instep.

The key to its noted speed comes from flexibility, relaxation and the hopping footworks on the ground.

Objective: SPEED and DISTANCE



"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=110)


Edited by - Blade Windu on May 10 2003 22:15:15

Punisher
5/10/2003 10:01pm,
Sweet!

Thanks Blade, you're alright.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Blad3
5/10/2003 10:13pm,
np. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Wrestling is the Martial Art of America";
"If you don't know how to wrestle you don't know how to fight, that's the prerequisite to fighting" David Tank Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=110)

Gongolongo
5/11/2003 12:25am,
I like how you spelled callouses.

Kail
5/11/2003 2:03am,
Note on the shotokan/kyokushin roundhouse. The hip rotation is present in both, I've never met a shotokan practitioner who didn't torque the hips through the kick unless they were very specifically throwing a lighter, more controled kick. Most also impact with the shin/ankle bones to body and head, its hard to find many that still use the ball of the foot, it has great penetration, but cuts the reach of the kick and requires a lot of attention to foot position. With those pics, each kick has the same ending body posture, with the MT and TKD guys looking to have their hips the furthest "through" the kick, looking like more total body power is put into them than the Kyokushin/Shotokan kicks. They all share the rear foot being turned almost heel forward, indicating hip rotation and good upper body placement. That, and apparently shotokan guys have to shave their heads now to do propper kicks ;)

AAU used to allow kicking to the head, and the picture put with the head kick for legal technique was done with the ball of the foot. The kicker was shown, with a fist full of the opponents gi, tugging him in, as he kicked to the rear edge of the jaw. Just shows how much their contact rules had changed. Now, grabbing the gi and head contact is illeagle in almost every sanctioned match I've heard of.

9chambers
5/11/2003 2:13am,
>its hard to find many that still use the ball
>of the foot

I poke in with my toes to the lower abdoman once in a while when I have shoes on, I guess that is where those ball of the foot round kicks come in handy. *shrug*


>> Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

9chambers
5/11/2003 2:31am,
MT round vs TKD round:

TKD round kicks are pivot generated. MT kicks whip out from the hip using the rotation for torque. The pivot is pretty much an afterthought or a landing. A lot of guys even step instead of pivoting. It is usually a half pivot at best anyway and commonly a quarter pivot or less. The reason for that is the front guard stance MT fighters use to keep all of their limbs available for attack and defense. Try doing a full pivot from a front guard MT stance or a boxing stance.

Switching your guard as you kick is where you get the power. Your legs change positions and your hips rotate with a lot of force. It has nothing to do with a pivot pulling you or giving you stability. Its impact. Like a bat swinging out and hitting a ball.

Its NOT chambered. Your leg flys directly from its position on the ground to the target. You don't lift the leg up, cock it back and snap it forward. That is TKD and not MT. In MT you whip it up there right from its position on the ground.

Punisher
5/11/2003 4:13am,
I concur with 9chambers.

In class we throw different types of rounds, and teach striking with either the shin, ball, or instep (ouch).

In acutal self-defense application we pretty much limit it to your shins or you toes if you are wearing something like heavy boots.

Think about, if you are wearing shoes, you're probably not going to be able to do sign lanuage with your feet anyway, your foot is basically going to stay is a single position and what you hit with is what you hit with.

Shura
5/11/2003 4:23am,
Nice. Very informative.

Now doesn't that make you feel better?

'It's all a ruse with Shura'-Kaine

panda
5/11/2003 5:30am,
its a little bit too clearly divided to divide things into "styles" of roundhouses like that but in general its tru, thai kicks feel like hook punches and lead with body rotation while tkd kicks feel more like backfists and lead with knee, tkd focuses on stealth (less big movements in technique) and speed while thai focuses on strength and power, both got their merits and i think in competition both styles spillover to the other, at olympic level tkd alot of practitioners naturally torque their body first (thai-like) when stamina falls and goes for pure knockout power, while in thaiboxing matches for head shots ppl adopt a more tkd style for a higher chance of hitting and speed from floor to the head and lead with the knee in their front foot kicks (tkdish), so there is no pure stylistic way of kicking, i mean...what about sanshou roundhouses? they seem to exist between the two different approaches...at a higher level of combat, people simply throw their technique according to the situation, not the style, since seriously, roundhouses in general are pretty much the same



Edited by - panda on May 11 2003 05:33:19

patfromlogan
5/11/2003 7:51pm,
Fifty years ago Kyokushinkai guys had a lot of contact with Muay Thai fighters. (pun intented) IMO there was probably some cross fertilization going on.

"Only IDIOTS think kata is useless because they don't know what they are talking about!!!" 5/6/03 by the the man himself, Asia

9chambers
5/11/2003 9:00pm,
Different targets are best attacked with different types of round kicks, I'll say that.

I mean, if you are going for the neck then hooking it with your instep/shin can give you a good smack that can snap the spine. Slapping with just the instep could jar the jaw of your opponant. Poking in with your toes (shoes) or the ball of your foot can give you access to cavities like the low abdoman or groin. A shin kick could break his knee, bruise his ribs or knock the wind out of him. Incorporating all of them into your arsenal isn't a bad thing. I'll say that.