View Full Version : Something that irks me, ...

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5/07/2003 8:27am,
Woot ! First post :)

As for the thing that irks me, it's the following. Respect.

I practice TKD, I've practiced Kung Fu for 2 years (Wushu and Northern Praying Mantis) and I've practiced Judo for about 5 years.

At my TKD school, we had this guy practice with us, who used to practice Muay Thai. Fine. I can live with that, kudos to him. He just kept on bitching and bitching about how MT was superior to TKD.

I asked him a simple question. Why do you come here to knock on TKD and disrespect my teacher? He answered by challenging me to a fight, which I refused. Just because I can fight, doesn't mean that I should. Besides, my teacher would have never allowed it.

Why is it that people have no respect for someone else's art? I've had people who practice Shotokan Karate, Ju Jitsu and western boxing telling me that TKD stinks. Too flashy, too useless.

Now, I don't know about western boxing, but I do know that Karate and Ju Jitsu teach you to be respectful towards others. They also teach you discipline and honor. Then howcome most of the people I know that practice Karate or Ju Jitsu are complete wankers?

The first thing my teacher tells you when you come to practice for the first time, are the tenets of TKD. Courtesy, integrity, self control, perseverance and an indomitable spirit. He also teaches us that what we learn is to defend ourselves, not to attack other people. He can and will beat you up if he finds out that you've been doing that.

My motivation for starting TKD was that I needed to work on my kicks. After two lessons though, I noticed that TKD is much more than just kicking. It's actually a fairly well rounded art, except that it has no ground game, but I've got Judo for that.

My teacher teaches us an equal amount of punches and kicks. We spar, semi-contact, but not point style. We wear gloves and pads for out feet.

I like TKD. My background in other MA's has certainly helped to adapt to TKD, but I find it to be exciting and easy to motivate myself for. My kicking abilities are even fairly impressive now. I'm 6'4", I wiegh about 225 pounds, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort for me to kick someone in the head, but still. I can kick much faster and much more accurate now.

Now, knowing all this, howcome people still disrespect what I do?


deus ex machina
5/07/2003 8:29am,


deus ex machina
5/07/2003 8:32am,
With that out of the way, here's my response.

Do whatever makes you happy, because that's what it comes down to. As long as you approach your training realistically, and as long as your instructor isn't teaching you something that might get someone killed in the street, do whatever you want. Laissez-faire.


deus ex machina
5/07/2003 8:34am,
It just means that someone who trains in Muay Thai and BJJ is going to pwn you hard.


5/07/2003 8:36am,
I see more and more students disrespect other schools and arts.
I would have suggested that that guy leave. if I am unhappy at school, I leave.

Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

5/07/2003 8:39am,
be kind and respectfuly...i train to hurt someone, not to find enlightenment...sorry

"you think you're tough? try riding on the back of a moto in downtown Phnom Penh"---jzf

"i left my heart in laos, but my wallet in cambodia

5/07/2003 8:54am,
We do train our techniques and I genuinely believe that if I can connect a punch or a kick on someone, it will hurt. Probably break something.

As far as application goes, with sparring, anything goes, except takedowns and groin shots, semi contact. I think that's a weak part, but we don't really train takedowns, so how would you execute it? I can, but that's because I have a Judo background.

I like semi contact sparring. You're there to show the other guy his holes in his guard, not to cripple him for a week.

My teacher also has me teach some of my Kung Fu grappling to other students, he finds it useful. The funny part is, that some Kung Fu grappling is remarkably similar to TKD grappling. Shows that it's the thought behind it, much less than style or technique.

My teacher stresses that in general, what you learn in the Dojang, shouldn't always be used in self defense. He is very realistic about that. He would prefer us to walk away. It's easy to see why. The legal consequences are not something I want to deal with. Self defense is hard to prove, especially if you could have walked away.

On a related note, a coworker of mine has a brother that owns a MT school. He asked me to come along some time. I'll keep you guys posted on how well I'll do with sparring.

As for the person who said that anyone who practices MT or BJJ will take me down hard. A true MA will never be an aggressor. Every MA teacher I've had, has told me never to offensively use my skills.


Deadpan Scientist
5/07/2003 9:23am,
A true MA will never be an aggressor. Every MA teacher I've had, has told me never to offensively use my skills.

Whoa there buddy.... Just because you've never taken an art that tells you to be agressive doesn't mean that there aren't any.

5/07/2003 9:31am,
Aggressiveness is one thing. Being an Aggressor is something else. Martial arts isn't just about kicking ass. There's a philosophy behind it.

I think it's safe to say that most traditional martial arts teach you self control and discipline to keep you out of trouble.

I sure as hell have yet to come across a MA school that teaches you to go out and fight other people randomly for no reason.


5/07/2003 9:34am,
I haave to agree with SIMPS on most of this. What is all this "own you" stuff and "punking" crap doing but showing that some of the persons on this forum are in MA (whether TMA or MMA or jsut plain old scuffle and gouge) to show how tough they will be if any one disses them. At least the TMAs I have been associated teach respect for others and the ideal of peaceful coexistence.

TKD is actually an aggressive self-defense system. If you're hit, or if someone tries to hit you, hit back harder. But our instrutors tell us to look for a better way out. There may not be one, but you should at least look.

The Wastrel
5/07/2003 9:35am,
Bollocks, the ethics are a load of nonsense. My personal opinion is that a lot of schools use that crap to get out of one simple hard fact: they're frightened that if they fight, they will look bad. I'm plenty concerned with ethics, but I don't get them from some slogan written in chopstick letters on a dojo wall.

Many schools exist on the shadow of a reflection of a myth about the fighting skills of the instructor, and the first thing they do when challenged is pull the honor card.

I don't think that you needed to take that challenge. That MT fighter was rude, maybe. Were you discussing relative effectivity? Or was he just spouting off out of context?

"Don't dispresepct my teacher," is just kind of pathetic. That's like saying not only is he not allowed to kick your ass, he's not even allowed to say he can kick your ass. I think a lot of the harder contact schools are a litle tired of the way some other schools get away with disparaging them without testing themselves against them.

Honestly, I think it's a little weird that many TMA schools are dead set against fighting. We fight on friendly terms quite often, and when we roll, it's at full intensity. There's no style bashing in my school, because the words don't matter. And no one would take it personally if someone wanted to test themselves against one of us. It would be more like a science experiment.

Last week, a Small Circle Jiujitsu black belt was in, and was apparently doing no small amount of boasting. So the teacher put him up against an 18 year old who had just made his blue belt. The kid didn't even bother submitting him for a long time, he just kept switching dominant positions, at one point he took the rear mount and pantomimed...well Deus Ex Machina Style. Eventually he choked him out. These things are no big deal. And we would have looked like garbage if he hadn't been dealt with right away.

"I'm devastating, looking for some refreshment!"

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The Wastrel
5/07/2003 9:49am,
THERE IS NO PHILOSOPHY BEHIND MARTIAL ARTS. Societys impose their ethos on them, they don't arise out of fighting. The creation of a warrior ethos is simply a check on force. It is not a necessary component.

"I'm devastating, looking for some refreshment!"

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5/07/2003 9:54am,
I don't think ethics are crap. I also don't think that my teacher is frightened to let us fight, because we may or may not look bad. He is afraid that if we do fight, people may end up getting seriously hurt and that's just not worth it for a pissing contest about "my style beats your style"

The MT guy was a guest in our dojang, so he should have behaved like one. Do you talk smack about your host if you're a guest somewhere? I certainly hope not. There's is nothing wrong with showing a little respect. If I can respect someone else's art, then why can't they respect mine?

The MT guy was talking smack about TKD, our students and our teacher. He was obviously looking for a fight and the reason he picked me was probably because I was the lowest belt present. White belt. I've been practicing TKD for about 3 months now. There's one guy with a red belt, he's been practicing TKD for almost 6 years now. Most of the students are Green belts. I can spar with them pretty well, they just have better technique and greater speed. I'm just a lot bigger then they are :)

We don't have slogans on the wall. It's just that my teacher is very realistic about what he wants to teach you. He takes his teaching very seriously and he will spend time with you one on one to work on your technique or to help you out.

I have a lot of respect for my teacher because of what he does for his students.


Fighty McGee
5/07/2003 10:00am,
Wastrel, your insensitivity towards tradition and ethos is disrupting my chi field.

5/07/2003 10:05am,
"THERE IS NO PHILOSOPHY BEHIND MARTIAL ARTS. Societys impose their ethos on them, they don't arise out of fighting. The creation of a warrior ethos is simply a check on force. It is not a necessary component."

I disagree with you there. When I was taking Praying Mantis, our sifu had sessions about the "I Ching" once every two weeks. It's know as "The Book of Changes". It was very interesting.

A lot of Shoalin Kung Fu styles have a buddhist background. Next to rigorous physical exercises, they also focus a lot on personal development and inner strength. Shaolin Masters in the old days weren't just warriors. They also mastered cultural arts, such as literature, music, painting.

The general idea behind a traditional martial art, used to be to make a better person out of you. Unfortunately, that idea didn't seem to carry over to the West so well.


The Wastrel
5/07/2003 10:11am,
I don't know anything about your school. I'm just commenting on something I've seen among many schools, and trying to show there is no clear answer either way. Ashida Kim used the EXACT same arguments wehn he was challenged. Not saying you're anything like him, I'm just saying that sometimes they're nothing but a fig leaf.

I think I already told you that I'm not the kind of person to do what that MT fellow did. I'm just saying that challenges are not a big deal. Look, there's no point in making appeals to respect, he obviously had an agenda.

What I had a problem with is this:

"Why is it that people have no respect for someone else's art?"

Nature of the beast. Fighters respect what works.

"They also teach you discipline and honor."

I have never seen anything to support that. Light contact schools teach people arrogance because they don't know what it's like to be beaten. They've never had to deal with it, so they're terrified of being humiliated. I don't see it that way.

The answer to why people disrespect TKD is that it is a system that is in SERIOUS trouble. Don't be surprised. If you don't believe me, take a look around. It is almost totally corrupted. If you guys are doing things the right way, then congratulations.

"I'm devastating, looking for some refreshment!"

Courtesy of flubtitles.com