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View Full Version : Grappling to help strike (grappling basis part 3.)



Blad3
5/07/2003 4:50am,
Summary : You need both, but only because the effective strikers learnt how to grapple so the grapplers had to learn how to use effective striking. However it's OBVIOUSLY always been worth learning how to strike, becasue you can obviously KO somebody much easier if they don't know how to strike well. Especially if they aren't grapplers, who can prevent striking far more eaisly than a striker can prevent grappling. But learn both so you're prepared and have the advantage of each type of fighting. Make them as one, or train them to flow in fighting in the first place.


The "Striker" , "Grappler" and the [/b] "MMAist" [/b] (the 'know-it-all') have a conversation:

Striker: I'm really upset MMAist <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

MMAist: awww why's that Striker? :|

Striker: Because at first, every time I tried to fight Grappler with my punches, knees, elbows and kick etc. he just grabed hold of me then he took/threw or slammed me down, before I knew it somtimes even - he ws FAST! When I tried to get free by grabbing hold of him it helps...but not really, then if I try to knee him it just makes it easier for him to take me down.

However, he's been showing me a thing or two for a few months, and I'm kind of getting better at grappling.

Grappler: It's true...sorry Striker. But I'm glad you've learnt quite a bit of grappling now. Hehe, you're kind of a "grappler" yourself now...

Striker: True <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Should we all forget about striking then MMAist, as you're not going to stand much of a chance at all, are you? All that striking has been wasted. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

MMAist: Well that would mean just having grappling matches! Ignoring some of our most powerful moves and the ability to KO somebody in a second or two. Just because you'll get grappled-up in a second, doesn't mean you can't prevent it first, as a grappler you do know how to do this Striker! It was grappling that taught you how to prevent all those oh-so effective grappling moves. You can still go for the KO, so NO it hasn't been put to waste <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Striker: Oh yeah...So now I know how to grapple, as well as how to strike too! I'm not going to ignore this - I'm going to strike the hell out of Grappler LOL, until you start to grapple me - but that's up to you when you want to basically end my striking...isn't it? <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

MMAist: But wait: Just prevent it and then start striking again! If the striking gets too out of hand for you Grappler, just avoid the strikes and grapple (and visa versa Striker.)

Striker: What about all those strikers or kickboxers etc that didn't stand a chance - they can grapple pretty well now...and as kickboxers etc they are pretty well conidtioned and strong....So you're saying I can prevent all that grappling that made it practically impossible for me to strike effectively?

MMAist: Yes sir.

Striker: Well gee that's just great! I can out-strike them/Grappler, and I'm good enough to prevent all those submission etc and grappling moves. SO even when I DO go to the ground, and I probably will a few times, I can just get myself back up with my grappling. I'm even better at striking than the grapplers, I may not have as good submission skills as they do, but I can prevent them, and try to prevent the take down, then get back to my superior striking!

MMAist: They may not even be able to take you down if you're good enough at grappling, and they suck at striking compared to you! At best they can be good strikers, but you're even better. Now you actually have a decent chance of winning!

Striker: PAY back time for the strikers!

Grappler: Unless...well the grapplers get better at striking! Neither takes too long to get effective at though (as I know from practice), heck only a few months of practising.

Striker: Soon they (the grapplers) may reach my level, even though there's still a good chance at them beating us if we don't prevent the grappling, and if we don't strike well from the beggining.

Grappler: Well the match will go on for ages! I mean we're in a stale-mate....but the longer the round or the fight goes, the more likely it is that we'll either get too tired to fight at all, or it's going to the ground and the grappler has the advantage...

Striker: ...even though I'm a grappler too...just not as good.

MMAist: Exactly - you BOTH have to be careful though!


MMAist:

So everybody,

This is why there are more and more decision wins, and finally striking wins are happening more often, because everyone learnt grappling. Now everyone knows grappling, the grapplers have to catch up with the strikers, to the level were they are good enough to defend against it and can hit back well. This can take less time than it does to become a good grappler, because grappling is even more technical - it doesn't always take too long just to learn how to grappler good enough to prevent submissions though, and even use them fairly well....So the learning curve isn't too much longer overall. But now the grapplers have done this (see the "Brazilian Top Team", amongst a many others for examples) and they've been as successful as have the strikers.

Striker: But strikers 0wn! Look @ Chuck Liddell! Vanderlei Silva!

MMAist: Hey, don't forgot it was learning grappling in the first that made it all possible for you Striker, bitch!

Grappler: bah I'll just be aware of his striking and take him down and submit his ass!

Striker: Not if I KO you first....

Grappler: In the two seconds before I shoot...ah!


MMAist: BOTH of you do the same thing now though, so you'll need to have an endless amount of matches and just see what happens! Can grappling be used or can can striking be used to win, will it there be a combination of both - or will there be a load of decision wins? We'll see... <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-End.


Anyway the only reason I wrote this article like this is because I'm fucking tired and I feel high....and I wanted to. It's nearly impossible to change or "convert" people over the internet though, so honestly I can't do anything if you disagree, but I'd appreciate it if you would all give your opinions if possible. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

=====

"I bet you're the kinda guy that would **** a person in the ass and not even have the god damn common courtesy to give him a reach around."

Full Metal Jacket. (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jacket2.html)

deus ex machina
5/07/2003 5:21am,
Can I enter this conversation?

Me(with knife in hand, to grappler): Grapple me, bitch. I dare you.

~
danny

deus ex machina
5/07/2003 5:23am,
By the way, I appreciate the effort you're putting into something you obviously feel strongly about, but seriously, you're not accomplishing anything really. I think most of us are aware of every facet of the striking vs. grappling debate. And I mean EVERY facet.

~
danny

Blad3
5/07/2003 5:39am,
Youve stated the obvious, yet some moron will still come onto this thread to prove how his 1337 elbows pwn all takedowns and how video evidence of effectiveness isnt enough. These people just need a good beatdown. Good article though. Thank you again Osiris, and you're most correct...

Deus Ex lol duh - I just do these for fun <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> I like to see what people say etc.

Of cours eknife fighting is good - but then why eve strike against a knife fighter?



you're not accomplishing anything really. Like I said it's practically impossible to convert people of the internet, most don't really need convertung anyway. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

=====

"I bet you're the kinda guy that would **** a person in the ass and not even have the god damn common courtesy to give him a reach around."

Full Metal Jacket. (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jacket2.html)

Halogen
5/07/2003 6:07am,
What, exactly, is the distiction made between striking and grappling, at which point does one become the other? At which point does a striker become a grappler, or a mixed martial artist.

I ask this because I consider myself a striker and the way I've always been taught (and I'm pretty damn sure my school isn't the only one) is that through strikes and physical manipulation of my opponent, I should try to upset their balance and (hopefully) put them on the ground, in a disadvantageous position (There isn't really a ground game to our style, as far as I know anyway).

Can you define this unbalancing and disruption of an opponents structure as (stand up) grappling? Your post just seems to imply that "striker" simply goes for impact damage when fighting and knows nothing about balance (maintaining it or making opponents lose it), which I dont think is entirely accurate of most well-understood striking styles.







Edited by - Halogen on May 07 2003 06:12:11

The Wastrel
5/07/2003 9:13am,
I think Halogen and I are on the same track.

"I'm devastating, looking for some refreshment!"

Courtesy of flubtitles.com

Blad3
5/07/2003 5:13pm,
No, strikers often have to use grappling anyway, I agree. Grapplers can also use striking, but to helko them setup grappling moves, or because they're using grapplign moves, we're talking about pure vs pure..

=====

"I bet you're the kinda guy that would **** a person in the ass and not even have the god damn common courtesy to give him a reach around."

Full Metal Jacket. (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jacket2.html)

Dochter
5/07/2003 8:28pm,
Striker: I see the sky and its blue.
Grappler: No I see it and its a shade of blue.

MMA: Now that we all agree lets all go **** each other.

Blade's work product while in civil service:
http://dochthiggins.topcities.com/Pictures/14.jpg

Most likely to make a mediocre attempt at trolling for no reason: Dochter




**Get in my belly!**

Blad3
5/07/2003 8:40pm,
LOL Dotcher..


when you pst an image do " whatever.jpg <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

=====

"I bet you're the kinda guy that would **** a person in the ass and not even have the god damn common courtesy to give him a reach around."

Full Metal Jacket. (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jacket2.html)

Halogen
5/08/2003 6:23am,
No, strikers often have to use grappling anyway, I agree. Grapplers can also use striking, but to helko them setup grappling moves, or because they're using grapplign moves, we're talking about pure vs pure..You completely missed what I was getting at. Going by the definitions you're using, I doubt there's such a thing as a 'pure' striker.

edit: I apologize for ressurecting this thread from page 2 :(. I'll just stop posting now.



Edited by - Halogen on May 08 2003 06:29:09

Gezere
5/08/2003 6:51am,
Asia: Will you bitches STFU!!!!! I go a hangover!!!!http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2657/hyaku.gif

Dochter
5/08/2003 5:11pm,
Why the hell do the pictures I host not show up?

What the FUCKING **** ****??




**Get in my belly!**

The Wastrel
5/08/2003 5:42pm,
I can see it.

"I'm devastating, looking for some refreshment!"

Courtesy of flubtitles.com

TaeBo_Master
5/08/2003 8:20pm,
I can't.

--A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --

FingerorMoon?
5/08/2003 8:20pm,
Sure you can.

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El Guapo says, ""You can buy muscles, but you can't buy COJONES!"
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