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Omega Supreme
3/04/2006 6:21pm,
Sometimes new words are coined or we need to spell out the parameters in which we understand things. Recently the idea of anti-grappling came along. We defined anti grappling a long time ago as grappling with the idea of not wanting to stay on the ground or go down to the ground. Therefore anti-grappling is grappling, making the term extremely stupid, especially here at bullshido. Anti grappling is usually used by stubborn stylists refusing to get with the times and learn tried and true techniques looking more into their system than to other systems to solve their problems, but that's a different issue.

Now we have "crappling" by my definition it goes a bit like this:

I "Mr. American Karate fuckhead" go out and take a seminar on bjj basics. I roll around with some friends until I'm tapping them on a regular basics, I think I'm good enough to teach this at my school so I do. You are a student of mine and you hear that I'll be teaching grappling. Yay, I'll go learn.

This is crappling. To put it in a different light it would be like learning to do kickboxing from a yellow belt in WTF TKD. He's going to out kick you but what else will he be able to do?

If you want to get together with your friends and practice grappling that's fine, should always be encouraged. You should be encouraged to fight from bad postitions. As soon as you learn from a substandard instructor though it becomes crap, bullshit or rather bullshido. If your instructor has a group just for practice and he/she is still training with a valid instructor that's a bit different though not by much. And if he has the instructor come every once in awhile but has classes on a regular basis it's not crappling.

So if you are practcing crappling you need to stop now and shoot your instructor, if you are teaching crappling you are on the wrong site and you should leave.:eatbaby:

NSLightsOut
3/04/2006 10:06pm,
Your definition is interesting, especially considering that the bulk of my training was conducted under an instructor who spent a month or so out of each year for twelve years training under his instructor in Brazil, with no support from any other grappling instructors in Australia whilst training BJJ.

He started up a training group in Australia, and maintains to this day that he has learned a great deal from rolling with his students, a change noted by his training partners when they either come over here for seminars or he returns to Gracie Barra to train.

He has the competition results to prove he is no crappler. My school's competition results show it as well.

My question is: At what point do we separate crappling and grappling?

Omega Supreme
3/05/2006 1:09am,
Your definition is interesting, especially considering that the bulk of my training was conducted under an instructor who spent a month or so out of each year for twelve years training under his instructor in Brazil, with no support from any other grappling instructors in Australia whilst training BJJ.

He started up a training group in Australia, and maintains to this day that he has learned a great deal from rolling with his students, a change noted by his training partners when they either come over here for seminars or he returns to Gracie Barra to train.

He has the competition results to prove he is no crappler. My school's competition results show it as well.

My question is: At what point do we separate crappling and grappling?

Not the same, he continued his training and you said he started a "training group" , which I clearly defined. I mean how much money was he charging while he was still in training? If the answer was none in the beginning until he started becoming good than the point is moot.

NSLightsOut
3/05/2006 5:15am,
I'll find out at what point he actually started charging for teaching. I think he only began teaching for a living in the late 90s, when he was either a purple or brown belt. Whether he was charging people for training before that I have no idea, but at that period of time BJJ was almost nonexistent in Oz.

My question would better be defined as this: Would 'crappling' be better defined by the local standard of competition? I know that there are cases of BJJ white belts teaching grappling in isolated areas where there is no other teaching source for them to resort to.

So as a result, which of these three examples do you believe better exemplifies crappling?

1. Karate teacher 'rediscovering' grappling/groundfighting in kata, when he is an area surrounded by competent grappling instruction?

2. Kickboxer/Random MAist in an isolated area with no competent grappling instruction picking up some instructionals and proceeding to put together a
training group, where members pay for instruction/upkeep of equipment?

3. Random TMAist takes grappling art, proceeds to 'rediscover' grappling in forms, writes a book, conducts seminars, makes a fair amount of cash into the deal.

Omega Supreme
3/05/2006 11:44am,
So as a result, which of these three examples do you believe better exemplifies crappling?

1. Karate teacher 'rediscovering' grappling/groundfighting in kata, when he is an area surrounded by competent grappling instruction?

2. Kickboxer/Random MAist in an isolated area with no competent grappling instruction picking up some instructionals and proceeding to put together a
training group, where members pay for instruction/upkeep of equipment?

3. Random TMAist takes grappling art, proceeds to 'rediscover' grappling in forms, writes a book, conducts seminars, makes a fair amount of cash into the deal.

1. Yes

2. Pay for instruction yes/upkeep or mat time no.

3. hell yes.

slamdunc
3/05/2006 10:58pm,
Random TMAist takes grappling art, proceeds to 'rediscover' grappling in forms, writes a book, conducts seminars, makes a fair amount of cash into the deal.
I'm liking this one. Where can I sign up for a weekend seminar? I could use the extra $$$.

Fitz
3/06/2006 12:48pm,
I'm liking this one. Where can I sign up for a weekend seminar? I could use the extra $$$.

You know it is only a matter of time before someone starts a "Grappling for TMA" learn from home DVD series to allow people to "rediscover" the grappling already contained in their arts.

MattJ
3/06/2006 2:59pm,
*wipes head*

Whew! Thanks for clearing that up, Omega! I promise not to teach crappling for money!

*whispers to everybody else*

What the hell was that all about? Is there a BJJ technique to defend against hurt feelings? :sad11:

*Sobs softly*

milwaukee cop
3/07/2006 11:56am,
how about say, a karate instructors student asks, "sensei, can you show us some groundfighting" and sensei replies " im not qualified, but we could go to seminars and review training tapes if there is enough club intrest." would they be crappling?

Fantasy Warrior
3/07/2006 3:04pm,
I think there needs to be a quality factor in the equation. crap grappling is obviously crappling, but if it ain't crap, even if it fits other indicators.....????

Omega Supreme
3/07/2006 3:07pm,
how about say, a karate instructors student asks, "sensei, can you show us some groundfighting" and sensei replies " im not qualified, but we could go to seminars and review training tapes if there is enough club intrest." would they be crappling?

Not crappling.

Darkpaladin
3/07/2006 3:44pm,
how about say, a karate instructors student asks, "sensei, can you show us some groundfighting" and sensei replies " im not qualified, but we could go to seminars and review training tapes if there is enough club intrest." would they be crappling?

Not crappling.

Wouldn't that just be humble crappling?



I think there needs to be a quality factor in the equation. crap grappling is obviously crappling, but if it ain't crap, even if it fits other indicators.....????

agreed.

Omega Supreme
3/07/2006 4:20pm,
Wouldn't that just be humble crappling?



agreed.


No not crappling, crappling is to be designated as a crap instructor teaching grappling, not an instructor and his students trying to learn how to grapple correctly. Small differance which is why I put up this thread.

Darkpaladin
3/07/2006 4:49pm,
No not crappling, crappling is to be designated as a crap instructor teaching grappling, not an instructor and his students trying to learn how to grapple correctly. Small differance which is why I put up this thread.

Gotcha.

chingythingy
3/07/2006 6:28pm,
What if, like Chuck Norris on "Walker Texas Ranger" gets bored with spinning hook kicking the **** out of everyone and says,
"even though I'm Chuck and my tears cure cancer, I'll go and learn how to armbar gorillas." then takes privates from Royler and the Machados in between 6 hour sessions on the Total Gym, after that all the stuntmen on Walker start rolling on their lunch breaks, before the show goes into syndication Chuck get his BJJ black belt. Then someone asks Carlos Machado if he's a legitimate black belt and Carlos says "he's fucking Chuck Norris - he can wear any belt he wants". Then Chuck points his finger and women cry, MMA fighters cower in fear, and the boogeyman checks his closet once more for Chuck Norris.

Is that crappling?

Matt W.
3/07/2006 7:45pm,
Are we overthinking this? I thought crappling was just sub-par (i.e. crappy) grappling. That would, of course, include all the scheisters out there, but would also include people like me.