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Niceguy
3/01/2006 1:24am,
Hello, this is my first post, I have been training MMA (MT, BJJ, Wrestling)for about a year and half now, and recently found this forum and I think its great.

My question is how much of gun and knife disarms and fighting and multiple opponent fighting is bullshido.

I ask this because even with a year and half of mma training while I still own the noobs, its not like I do it in 10 seconds or anything, I still have to work to do it and maybee tap them in like minute or so if I am quick. I just dont see how anyone could defeat two very strong and determined opponents

Even if you look at UFC 1, it still took Royce generally at least 1 min to dispatch his opponents, and he dominated everybody, and was a jui-jitsu black belt at the time. That is way to long with two guys trying to beat the crap out you.

The gun and knife disarms I am also skeptical of, as they are both exteremly deadly weapons.

I feel that the best advice for multiple opponents, guns and knives is to arm yourself or run.

What are you guys/gals thoughts on guns, knife, and multiple opponent training?

Reason I ask is that my school focuses on mma competitions, not specifically "self defense", but I feel that the are essentially the same thing, with a few exceptions. But we dont train guns, knives, or multiple opponents, am I missing something because of this? I personally dont feel I am but hey, you never know.

Hannibal
3/01/2006 1:28am,
If someone points a gun at you, your fucked.

If someone is trying to use a knife on you, 9 out of 10 times your fucked.

It is very,very difficult to take a wepon away from someone. Most Ju-Jutsu defenses against the knife are highly questionable. But then again it all depends on the individual dojo and how they train.

Cassius
3/01/2006 1:31am,
If someone points a gun at you, your fucked.

If someone is trying to use a knife on you, 9 out of 10 times your fucked.

It is very,very difficult to take a wepon away from someone. Most Ju-Jutsu defenses against the knife are highly questionable. But then again it all depends on the individual dojo and how they train.What a useful answer you've provided here. The analysis is truly exquisite.

Beautiful, just beautiful.

Hannibal
3/01/2006 2:14am,
Okay smart-ass what was wrong with what I said.

Moleculo
3/01/2006 2:27am,
Okay smart-ass what was wrong with what I said.

You forgot to mention that if he has a gun in one hand and a dildo in the other then you're fucked either way.

Virus
3/01/2006 2:34am,
I think handing them your wallet and car keys is the best knife/gun defence. The disarms should be learnt (and trained in an alive manner) but considerd a last ditch tactic.

Neildo
3/01/2006 2:38am,
Gun and Knife disarms only work on totally untrained dumbasses.

Said dumbasses would be trying to intimidate you with these weapons, because they are wimps.

Feel free to break their arms dude.

A trained Gun/Knife user, would just shoot/stab you. No time for flashy techniques.

Amkreet
3/01/2006 2:45am,
One of the differences between the knife and gun situations is that anything goes. If you're armed, your chances are better. Something you don't get in sparring is the fact that groin shots, eye gouges, small joint manipulation, and pressure points are allowed - but not reccomended.

I train in knife disarms and techniques against knife attacks, but i'd perfer to run if I had the choice; common sense. If a guy with a gun comes up, then you should probably consider running. If two guys with guns are there, you should definately fucking bolt.

My buddy was in the military and learned a gun defense technique that'd been used in real life situations a multitude of times correctly. That goes to show you that nothing's impossible.

Hurt
3/01/2006 3:30am,
I ask this because even with a year and half of mma training while I still own the noobs, its not like I do it in 10 seconds or anything, I still have to work to do it and maybee tap them in like minute or so if I am quick. I just dont see how anyone could defeat two very strong and determined opponents

Yeah man you got it, you answered your own question. There isn't any magic martial arts technique that allows you to dispose of even a single opponent let alone several. I don't think it needs to be delved into that being able to handle one attacker would have to be the first and most important step in this situation though.

And yeah anyone who tries to sell you knife or gun disarming bullshit is grossly irresponsible.

Amkreet
3/01/2006 3:40am,
Yeah man you got it, you answered your own question. There isn't any magic martial arts technique that allows you to dispose of even a single opponent let alone several. I don't think it needs to be delved into that being able to handle one attacker would have to be the first and most important step in this situation though.

And yeah anyone who tries to sell you knife or gun disarming bullshit is grossly irresponsible.

I know people that have made it out of a knife attack alive because of unarmed military training specifically for a situation like that, please refrain from saying that the person who taught them such a technique is irresponsible.

Gumby
3/01/2006 4:01am,
I know people that have made it out of a knife attack alive because of unarmed military training specifically for a situation like that, please refrain from saying that the person who taught them such a technique is irresponsible.

Heres the problem with knife disarms- the people you're talking about are n fact most likely physical specimens, which means that athletic ability contributed greatly to their getting out of a knife attack.

Just because a few people can do it doesnt mean a technique is valid- a few super athletes may be able to pull the move off, but a technique that relies on strength is not very reliable when fighting someone bigger and stronger than you.

The thing that people need to realize is that things like knives and guns were invented to give some regular schmuck an advantage over someone who's much bigger and stronger than you- like it or not, no amount of training will give you an advantage over someone with a fucking gun.

Amkreet
3/01/2006 4:07am,
I didn't say an anti-gun attack saved my friend's life, I said the attacker was weilding a knife. Sure, he was in good shape, but it was still a question of being able to maneuver quickly enough and being able to use abilities stemming from martial arts and self defense - not something intrinsic to anyone.

You say that "Just because a few people can do it doesn't mean the technique is valid."

That's a relatively fair statement, but I choose to look at it as "Just because a few people can do it, those few people are still alive." The reason they're still alive is due to MA or Self Defense training. My friend's included.

Granted, i'm completely biased because it happened to someone close to me, thus affecting me, but I think any single bit of information you can get regarding saving your ass is worthwhile.

Otaku Waffle
3/01/2006 4:41am,
And yeah anyone who tries to sell you knife or gun disarming bullshit is grossly irresponsible.

Just trying to get the nuances right: Do you mean that anyone teaching knife or gun disarms is selling you bullshit by definition?
Or is it that anyone that teaches you disarms and tells you they are reliable is selling you bullshit?

JohnnyCache
3/01/2006 5:00am,
Imagine the crickets chirping if this thread was locked to anyone who had never had a gun pulled on them.

Neildo
3/01/2006 5:12am,
Wait......don't you mean 'ever had'?

Out of curiousity, who here has ever looked down the barrel of a gun?
(A cops gun doesn't count, so i'm excluded already.)

edit: disregard that JC, I can't read, apparently.
edit2: I read a thread recently about someone being mugged at gunpoint and managed to not die.
(i'd post it but i'm using my psp and it's impossible to copy, and paste links, and it took me 20 minutes just to type this.)

Otaku Waffle
3/01/2006 5:31am,
Out of curiousity, who here has ever looked down the barrel of a gun?


I did. I used my awesome NSMWHOW defense. (Nearly Shitting Myself While Handing Over Wallet).