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mullet
2/14/2006 7:47am,
Just wondering if there are any boxers out there who would like to share their game plan if they decide it's time to hurt somebody on the street. Of course most people know that a jab-cross-hook combo will fold most non-fighters out there, and naturally you're not gonna be sticking & moving against an untrained guy, but if you've any variation from this I'd love to hear it.

A while back I had a stupid fight on the street where I tried 2 illegal boxing moves which worked to pretty good effect:

a) Headbutting. If the guy gets up in your face real close, bringing your head down onto his nose will send him back a little bit OR get him to fold over so you can get some room to smack him.

b) Holding the shirt / collar. This is illegal in the ring, but it's bloody great on the footpath. While you're holding the other dude's shirt, he can't move, and you can get greater leverage than normal. To boot, you don't have to worry about range as you're holding him. Blast right hands into his nose (it's more cushioned than the chin) and he'll be down pretty quick.

Also, I've found that If you've got soft hands and/or want to end the fight real quick, throw a lead left rip to the guy's liver. If you're good at these, the fight will be over straight away. They aren't that reliable except against pussies however, if you do land em they're brilliant.


I guess this is of course if you don't have a bat or a bottle to swing, but it's still interesting to see how people adapt their boxing from ring to street. Eg one dude I know has a pair of knuckle dusters with padding that protect his hand from being hurt; one of the worst worries with hitting a dude without a glove is fucking your hand up. Anyway, share your tactics!

PointyShinyBurn
2/14/2006 8:16am,
Learn BJJ.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Where's Dreadnought when you need him?

PointyShinyBurn
2/14/2006 8:24am,
On a less trollish note, avoid hooks to the head. Without gloves they're the most likely knuckle cracker.

b) Holding the shirt / collar. This is illegal in the ring, but it's bloody great on the footpath.I'd avoid holding and hitting if I were a boxer. They know radically fewer unpleasant things to do from a clinch than a wrestler, Muay Thai fighter or Judoka. Best to keep the fight to the range you're best at.

Zeddy
2/14/2006 8:38am,
I'd say the holding is a good idea. Even if it takes a second for the other person to react, with the initiative it provides the control to land some very solid rights.

Mr.Mundane
2/14/2006 8:48am,
Straight right to the face, run away.

PointyShinyBurn
2/14/2006 8:50am,
I'd say the holding is a good idea. Even if it takes a second for the other person to react, with the initiative it provides the control to land some very solid rights.Best to try and limit your fighting to what you're trained for. A Judoka will toss you over his head using the arm you've just given him.

VikingPower
2/14/2006 10:28am,
The average schmuck on the street is not a Judoka though. I've done holding the collar and holding the belt a couple times, belt seems better IMO but I never use either for very long. Headbutts work, thumbing, chopper fists, lots of stuff work all right.

And to be honest, 90% of the time, slipping and jabbing is your best defense. Most people break up a fight pretty quickly, so all you hafta do is stay out of his range and pop him a few times until they stop it. Nothing more complicated than that.

Shirak
2/14/2006 10:34am,
Learn BJJ.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Where's Dreadnought when you need him?


well, BJJ is useful if it's a one on one thing, but if you're surrounded by his friends, I'd rather standup and try my best instead of going to the grounds. When you're standing up, with your hands protecting as well as your leg in use, you can keep the others out. However on the ground, you have to focus your legs and hands on the person you're fighting, and his friends can just kick you or do something.

Phrost
2/14/2006 10:41am,
I fucked up my hand pretty good the other day, wearing 12 oz gloves and punching focus mits. It's really made me question the practicality of punching someone in the skull without gloves on.

Much more useful to throw a push kick and/or clinch and throw knees/elbows which won't break as easily.

PirateJon
2/14/2006 10:45am,
The key to winning a fight is to get there first with the most. I'm a heavy so I got more power than speed. Those two things in mind I'd play keep away with lots of hard jabs. A power jab probably won't hurt your hand at all, but is quick, leaves you pretty well covered up, and can easily win a fight against an untrained or even a trained non-expert opponent. A few stiff blows to the face will take the fight right out of someone. Against someone that's not a better fighter, I'd hardly ever throw my power shots.

Holding someone is dumb - now you've only got one hand to defend and attack. I'd rather work a combo thanks. Headbutting is last resort cause of the range. I would rather stick and move from the outside - I'm a boxer, that's my game. I'll go all out on the inside only if I'm forced to.

Oh and if you think a good liver shot won't drop anyone anywhere, you're crazy.


On fighting a boxer...

most boxers won't have any trouble laying the opponent out with either hand so that's a plus for them. The whole truism about the blow you don't see being the most damaging and if you're not better than the boxer, you either won't see it coming or won't be able do much about it. Key here is don't let them decide the range.

bodyshots are another way to open someone up or drop them and won't hurt your hand as much so those would be used a lot.

The typical streetfight wind-up right hand is the boxing equivalent of the gracie gift - that's what you hope the other guy does. You might as well ask to get KTFO. Don't make obvious mistakes like that.

An advantage against non-expert takedowns is that boxers train to move quick when someone comes in on them so a sloppy tackle probably won't cut it. If I could get a shot in on someone coming in, I'd try to rabbit punch or hook to the face. so be prepared to eat at least one punch trying a takedown.

Once you get tied up all bets are off.

Against someone that knew what they were doing I'd think the boxing clinch would be a disadvantage since you tend to stiffen up and stand up taller and lean into your opponent - muscle them down - which could probably be used against you easily. Now boxers train hard so they're usually tougher and stronger than the typical person their size, but there's no ground work so anyone with some grappling - and probably even crappling - should be able to take them out once they're on their backs.

Tom Kagan
2/14/2006 10:50am,
I fucked up my hand pretty good the other day, wearing 12 oz gloves and punching focus mits. It's really made me question the practicality of punching someone in the skull without gloves on.


With all due respect, how did you manage to do that?

Ryno
2/14/2006 11:06am,
Jabs, as PirateJon mentioned seem pretty useful to me. Experienced streetfighters have enough sense to watch out for the omni-present big right haymaker. A quick power jab does not leave a whole lot of reaction time, and you can catch someone with it pretty quickly and stagger them.

Personally, I'm a fan of the jab, then straight right to the solar plexus. It's effective with gloves on, but you get a whole hell of a lot more penetration on the body when it's bareknuckle. Knocks the wind out of them most of the time, and can stop a fight. The jab pulls their hands up, or often they will lean back to move their face away, making that body an obvious target. I like dropping down a bit as I throw the right, as it clears your head under any garbage flailing that they might throw after you've connected with the jab. "Ooooofffffff!"

mullet
2/14/2006 11:27am,
Good points there. As regards liver shots, I find it difficult to hit it every time, that's why I don't rely on the punch. Be it left hook or uppercut, I'm never sure if I'll hit the liver or just a section of the abs. But yer when it hits, they go down. I've been hit there hard and I was laid out on the mat unable to move. I thought I was dead. Anyway...

another good attack would be the blitzkrieg style (ie Vitor Belfort in those early UFC wins) where you rush forward throwing jab/cross in quick succession to the chin. The main reason this would be more effective in a street fight is because the presumption is that the other guy isn't a boxer. Non-fighters/boxers pull their head directly back to avoid punches and this opens them right up to get smacked by the blitzkrieg attack.

Jabbing - I dunno if this would work at my weight (65kg)... while I do have a decent jab, even a power jab wouldn't do half as much as my cross or a hook. Still, if you're able to stick and move the guy with a shitload of jabs, he could get either really frustrated or just ***** out because the pain becomes too much. Ie winky wright style - just tattoo the guy's face with the jab... although most people on the street wouldn't be able to take that many.

If you're hurting your hands with 12oz gloves you need to see a doctor, OR you've got ***** hands.

Regarding hurting your hands when punching skull, you don't try and hit the guy on the top of the hea (it's like a helmet), and the chin / nose isn't that hard when you do punch it. You could always get knuckle dusters with foam padding or something.

**** just thought of another good move! If the guy ever turns his back to you, or you are clinching him and able to get around to the back of him, rabbit punch the fucker! A good blow to the back of the head knocks anyone down (see Hopkins v Echols II for a good example of this) and then you can stomp the guys head etc.

PointyShinyBurn
2/14/2006 11:35am,
The average schmuck on the street is not a Judoka though.A bit of a dangerous line of thought in my opinion. Starting the fight by assuming your opponent is untrained and/or a moron is a good way to be unpleasantly, and possibly finally, surprised.

well, BJJ is useful if it's a one on one thing, but if you're surrounded by his friends, I'd rather standup and try my best instead of going to the grounds. Me too, but it might happen whether you like it or not. It's probably most likely when outnumbered.

Jabbing - I dunno if this would work at my weight (65kg)... while I do have a decent jab, even a power jab wouldn't do half as much as my cross or a hook.Jab for the win! The only boxer I know can hit standup-impaired me with a jab all day long, and it's absolutely minimum commitment. Since this is probably 'self defence' rather than attempted murder that makes it totally ideal.

Phrost
2/14/2006 12:08pm,
With all due respect, how did you manage to do that?

I wasn't wearing handwraps under them and was hitting full speed. I think it was the left hooks that did it. I was trying to murder those mits.

Tom Kagan
2/14/2006 12:11pm,
I wasn't wearing handwraps under them and was hitting full speed. I think it was the left hooks that did it. I was trying to murder those mits.


Just a guess: you hook with the fist horizontally and the pain you have radiates from wrist to your ring and pinky fingers, right?