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BFGalbraith
2/02/2006 5:01pm,
Someone I know is looking for a BaGua school in the Seattle Area. The closest thing I've encourtered was a Canadian at the 2001 Tiger Balm who (in between competitions) threw one of my Tai Chi comrades around pretty good. Should I tell the guy-I-know-looking-for-BaGau to plan to commute to Vancouver, or are there BaGua schools/groups in Seattle who practice some kind of interactive resistance between students? I'm looking for three things in this recomendation, listed here in order of importance:

1) It actually is BaGua (preferably has some kind of lineage)
2) It has contact/resistance training between students (it actually is a martial art and not just another flavor of Chi Kung)
3) The closer to Seattle, the better

Does 1+2+3 exist in one school? (If so, what is the contact information for that school?) What are the best BaGua options in the Seattle area?

Mor Sao
2/02/2006 6:13pm,
Andrew Dale
P.O. Box 77040
Seattle, WA 98133
(206) 283-0055
Pa Kua Chang

Sifu Dale is very good at what he does.

Matt Stone
2/02/2006 10:11pm,
1) It actually is BaGua (preferably has some kind of lineage)
2) It has contact/resistance training between students (it actually is a martial art and not just another flavor of Chi Kung)
3) The closer to Seattle, the better

Does 1+2+3 exist in one school? (If so, what is the contact information for that school?) What are the best BaGua options in the Seattle area?

Well, though I've heard Andy Dale is very knowledgeable, I haven't heard that you'll find #2, above, to any great degree. For that matter, from what I've heard about most schools in the Seattle/SeaTac/Kent/Renton/Fife/Tacoma/et cetera area, there aren't all that many schools that take part in active fisticuffs with each other.

I train in Lakewood (Tacoma) when I live there... I am in S. Korea for another 3 months, and then I'll return to Fort Lewis. Our school includes Xingyi, Taiji, and Bagua in its curriculum, but we are not a Xingyi, Taiji, nor Bagua school... Our art is called Yiliquan, and is a hybrid art in the same fashion as Liu He Ba Fa... Whatever.

Dale's skill and knowledge aren't in question, just whether they lay the smack down on each other or not... His prices are insane, too, by the way, but I guess all of Seattle is ridiculously overpriced anyway.

SFGOON
2/03/2006 10:46am,
While we're at it, does anone know of a good Kali school in the same area?

simo
2/03/2006 11:25am,
Sifu Jesse Cole is not affiliated with us, but
we know of him:
Contact Name: Mr. Jessie J. Cole
Business Name: Portland Bagua Gung-fu School llc
Address: 1810 N. Columbia Blvd. Bldg A2 Suite #8
City: Portland
State: OR
Country: North America-United States
Phone Number: 503-735-4442
Center's Major Interest: Bagua


http://www.taichinetwork.org/list_result.cfm

Simo of ch'iang shan pa kua chang

Ryno
2/03/2006 1:28pm,
While we're at it, does anone know of a good Kali school in the same area?

I help run a little FMA club in the Ballard neighborhood. We're Lightning Scientific Arnis/LESKAS. www.leskas.com

Other than us, there's MKG in Greenwood/Phinney neighborhood.

Bellevue Martial Arts under PG Hufana is very active in the FMA locally

IMB Seattle is run by Guro Pete Israel.

Chris Clarke of Inosanto lineage is down in Federal Way.

Guro Madeline Coffin of Serrada is floating around and does private lessons.

There are a few others that I know that I'm missing.

BFGalbraith
2/03/2006 8:54pm,
Does anyone know anything about "Grandmaster Qian Timing" or his student "Mei-hui Lu" as described on the following site

http://depts.washington.edu/asuwxpcl/catalog.php?sec=courses&category=MARTIAL%20ARTS

?

BFGalbraith
2/04/2006 9:57pm,
MKG appears to be a full-contact oriented school for sure:
http://www.mkgseattle.com/page.asp?content_id=7144

I haven't done Arnis since the 80's, but when I did Dave Bird (see link below) was the guy who was doing the full-contact arnis training in the west sound area (and I did train in one of his schools, but not this one, which also teaches a different system of Choy Lay Fut than I studied):
http://harborkarate.com/arnis-kickboxing-guro.html
(Later he had kickboxers fighting in local kickboxing competitions, including fight cards with AMC fighters.)

SpottyD
10/17/2006 12:51am,
Does anyone know anything about "Grandmaster Qian Timing" or his student "Mei-hui Lu" as described on the following site

http://depts.washington.edu/asuwxpcl/catalog.php?sec=courses&category=MARTIAL%20ARTS

?

I just started take WuDang Tai Chi classes at Bellevue Community with this pair. They seem to be quite good. I'm just a newbie after three lessons, however the techniques that that they teach seem to match the few books I've read. And I'm feeling a whole lot more relaxed now that I am practicing. For what it is worth, the leasons also "feel" authentic.

I'm trying to find out more information, and I am not getting very far unfortunately... Thank you for the link though.

If there are more references on this pair, I would be interested.

Locu5
10/17/2006 5:50am,
So you are doing martial applications in your TCC class? That is good to hear. Can you give an example?

BFGalbraith
10/17/2006 10:50pm,
So you are doing martial applications in your TCC class? That is good to hear. Can you give an example?

Not to speak for the TCC newbie here, but allow me to blunt: the biggest difference between Free Style Wrestling and what this school calls "push hands" is that Free Style has mats (these guys typically go at it on grass or hard-wood floor.) My gripe is they don't deal with Muay Thai style clinches ... and that if they are going to do so many big throws (double legs etc.) they may as well do some ground fighting while they are at it. (They don't do ground fighting as far as I know, but they do end up on the ground regularly.)

They also often train full-resistant/full-speed/in-sparring joint locks, injuries be damned. Honestly it's one of the most brutal traditional martial arts I have encountered: Judo for example is considerably safer (and I have had my ass handed to me in Judo classes.)

This was the style of martial art who's competition I took part in for this review (reviewed without anyone's consent):
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=235

And is the same school as this review:
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=255

Oscar Goldman
10/17/2006 11:32pm,
MKG appears to be a full-contact oriented school for sure:
http://www.mkgseattle.com/page.asp?content_id=7144


Surprisingly, they're not from everything I've heard and from going in and talking to them.

I think it's a lot of shield kicking and stick patterns, but I can't say for sure. I sometimes train with a group that takes a BJJ class in there once a week, so I'm just working off what I see and what I've heard / been told (including by one of the instructors there).

I got the story where the guy upstream in their lineage "used to go full contact, then figured out you could drill instead and blah, blah, insert excuse, blah..."

Oscar Goldman
10/17/2006 11:35pm,
There is no Pa Kua listed here, but just a shout out to this guy:

http://www.threeharmonies.com/

Trained under Tim Cartmell and does Xing Yi, etc. with resistance. He also grapples and is a cool guy.

Oscar Goldman
10/17/2006 11:38pm,
I help run a little FMA club in the Ballard neighborhood. We're Lightning Scientific Arnis/LESKAS. www.leskas.com

Other than us, there's MKG in Greenwood/Phinney neighborhood.

Bellevue Martial Arts under PG Hufana is very active in the FMA locally

IMB Seattle is run by Guro Pete Israel.

Chris Clarke of Inosanto lineage is down in Federal Way.

Guro Madeline Coffin of Serrada is floating around and does private lessons.

There are a few others that I know that I'm missing.

Who does contact besides you guys Ryno? I know you gear up and go with padded weapons, etc. Does anyone else practice "alive"?

Boy I'm just shitting up this thread with my commentary, I'll shut up now.

:hijackp:

BFGalbraith
10/18/2006 12:32pm,
Surprisingly, they're not from everything I've heard and from going in and talking to them....
I got the story where the guy upstream in their lineage "used to go full contact, then figured out you could drill instead and blah, blah, insert excuse, blah..."


Oh man that sucks. I'll take MKG off my recommended schools list.

Also, I wouldn't mind a complete survey of "live" FMA in the area actually... so more comments on what stick fighting schools are actually contact sparring (in Seattle) are appreciated.

SpottyD
10/19/2006 12:57pm,
To respond to Locu5
So you are doing martial applications in your TCC class? That is good to hear. Can you give an example?

At this point, I've had 3 classes. So far we are going through stances, breathing, visualization, etc... no real martial applications yet. I also suspect we will only get to rudimentary push-hands training in this 10 week program. That is okay. I'm patient and if I like it, I'll continue.

I've previous dabbled a few years at time in Judo, TKD, and Ving Tsung. I've enjoyed the competitive / physical nature of these MAs. However, since then I've screwed up my shoulders and back, and a hard core MMA program would not be a match for me. I also don't have time to devote to the training requirements that such a program would entail.

The part of me that "wants to beleive" is really curious about this mysterious force called "Chi." I figured the best way to find out whether or not there is anything to this concept of "Chi" was to try out a class and try and get some personal experience. A Google search on Mei-hui Lu points to sites that claim that she has a PHD in Chinese medicine and has won gold medals in international Tai-Chi competitions.

I'm sure that this post will be disappointing for those looking for training "hard core" MMA training against resisting opponents. But - I decided it was better to be honest about where I was coming from.

Note: There is an other thread on bullshido on Mei-hui Lu's husband, Master Chang Wu Na that might be more appealing to someone looking for more "martial" applications

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=255