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View Full Version : The _ing _un Anti Grapple!



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Gumby
12/20/2005 9:39pm,
http://www.mmaportal.com/idealbb/files/anti/wing-chun-anti-grappling-big.html

You'll have to go ahead and excuse me if I think that this is complete and udder bullshit.

They cant even do a double leg, besides the fact they're trying it from 10 feet away, and a few minutes in how the guy doesnt know whether to try a drop seo nagi (sp?) or an arm drag.

About 1/4 the way through- I LOVE the demo where the guy on the bottom of cross side escapes with a face slap, in which the guy on top goes completely limp and rolls away.....

Shawarma
12/20/2005 10:07pm,
Not defending the bad techniques on that video, but you need to take into account that the average twat out to pick a fight with you doesn't know how to do any kind of fancy takedown besides the bum rush, which seems to be what the techniques are designed to defend. My sound is broken though: Does he say that it will be effective against actual trained grapplers or is it a street self defense thing?

Teryan
12/20/2005 10:39pm,
I got about a thrid thru that, It's long really long. It just seemed to be one guy doing a half assed crappy take down and the other guy rabbit punching then kicking until the uke went limp. No resistnace from what I saw. In a few instances it looked as if they wanted to they could have pulled off and arm bar extremely easley.

PirateJon
12/20/2005 11:04pm,
Not defending the bad techniques on that video, but you need to take into account that the average twat out to pick a fight with you doesn't know how to do any kind of fancy takedown besides the bum rush, which seems to be what the techniques are designed to defend. My sound is broken though: Does he say that it will be effective against actual trained grapplers or is it a street self defense thing?

Why would that even begin to matter? Either it's effective or it's not effective. If it's only effective if the person is unskilled, or blind, or in a coma, then it doesn't work.



That vid reminds me of something i see a lot in WC vids - people falling over after 3 or 4 crappy jabs to the face. WTF? Are WC people extra fragile?

TehDeadlyDimMak
12/20/2005 11:14pm,
Techniques are worthless against real fighters.

However, I can see them working against the average guy on the street. (aka some of my non-ma friends)

TehDeadlyDimMak
12/20/2005 11:15pm,
Actually, I changed my mind. They wouldn't even work against my friends.

supercrap
12/20/2005 11:16pm,
goddamn it i want to see this travesty but my piece of **** mac wont play the video.

any tips?

TehDeadlyDimMak
12/20/2005 11:17pm,
Through a piece of meat between two stray dogs. It will reproduce this video.

supercrap
12/20/2005 11:22pm,
Cool. Actually I just looked out the window and a small dog tried to bite somebody's leg off while he wiped snow off his car windsheild, so I'm basically satisfied.

Dagon Akujin
12/21/2005 3:36am,
WTF? Actually, everyone's sound is broken on this clip; the vid in in espanol. And I really wanted to know what they're saying. :qbluewack

I'm actually very curious as to why the instructor was using hammerfist techniques that didn't seem to generate any force, in place of the standard, elbow in, pushing-off WC/VT punch-to-the-throat that I probably throw 5000 times each class. He doesn't seem to root himself in his stance or shift in his stance much either, which is bread and butter to the WC/VT I'm used to, especially when grappling arises. This looks to me almost like... dare I say it... WC/VT MMA? I see lots of shoulder moving, footwork, and a moving away from the standard elbow positioning that I'm familiar with. Huh.

Plus, they don't seem to be following WC/VT rule numero quatro: constant forward energy. But bleah, now I feel like I'm starting to exibit that WC/VT Family-Feud war tendancy that everyone here hates. :confused2


Through a piece of meat between two stray dogs. It will reproduce this video.

You get bonus points++ for best line of the night.

doner_kebab
12/21/2005 11:05am,
I think I spotted some flaws in the groundwork escapes.


They need to start live sparring their techniques to find out what works without a compliant partner.

Gezere
12/21/2005 11:45am,
That was utter CRAP!!!

And I don't know if it me but it was ironic that some of the so called "anti-grapplilng" was.......GRAPPLING *gasp*. So if you are using Grappling to counter Grappling why don't youo just take up Grappling since they already do it and not waste time with this CRAPPLING?


LOGIC the _ing _unner's natural enemy!!!!

Gezere
12/21/2005 11:50am,
Techniques are worthless against real fighters.

However, I can see them working against the average guy on the street. (aka some of my non-ma friends)

Most pple I know (the smart ones) don't announce who they are or what they do before getting into a fight. Therefore you don't know who you will be facing. So with that in mind would you rather a) deal with effective techniques that worked against other skilled fighters or b) deal with half ass techniques and HOPE you will only be in a fight with an unskilled person?

Locu5
12/21/2005 12:09pm,
I'll take Techniques I Don't Fear for $500, Alex.

DANINJA
12/22/2005 7:32am,
someone askesd this qstn on the ebmas forum regarding anti grappling:


wing tsun originally is a stand up fighting art so why not use bjj/grappling tecniqhes for ground fighting?why not use a sprawl etc?
what is the difference between wing tsun anti-grappling/groundfighting compared to techniques from the other grappling arts?
How was the anti-grappling developed i.e adapting wing tsun techniques on the ground or testing it against grapplers etc?

-------------------------------------------------------------

The anti-grappling programs are an excellent starting point for thinking about ground-fighting, they are not, IMO, some idealized text to always be adhered to. They do emphasize a very important idea which is the reason not to simply do BJJ or sambo on the ground- PLAY YOUR GAME, NOT THE OTHER GUY'S!!!!

The anti-grappling is all about playing your game as a WT guy- striking and escaping, escaping and striking, trying to make your escapes and counters offensive in nature while controlling position (linking attack and defense, as it were).

If someone tries to take you down 'cos you're a better striker and they're a grappler, that's probably not the guy you want to grapple with- he just proved that he's possibly a better grappler than you by taking you down. Ergo, mess up his plans, escape, and beat on him. This is the same basic strategy that high level strikers have been very succesful with in MMA (Louiseau, Vovchenchyn, Cro-Cop, Liddell, and the original proof, Mo Smith).

In order to learn to do this, you need to train with grapplers and will probably wind up learning a bunch of their tricks in the process- that's called getting experience, something everyone with skills has gone out and gotten- it won't come just by staying at home.

At the end of the day, I don't think about something as WT or BJJ or greco- it's 'do I improve my position and make his worse', 'does my defense threaten him', 'does my attack leave me defended', 'do I keep pressure on him'.


Andrew

Gumby
12/22/2005 11:03am,
someone askesd this qstn on the ebmas forum regarding anti grappling:


The anti-grappling programs are an excellent starting point for thinking about ground-fighting, they are not, IMO, some idealized text to always be adhered to. They do emphasize a very important idea which is the reason not to simply do BJJ or sambo on the ground- PLAY YOUR GAME, NOT THE OTHER GUY'S!!!!



I fucking love it when "martial artists" use that quote like they've invented the wheel or something. "Dont play his game!" well no fucking ****, but did it ever occur to you the other guy is thinking the same thing? You try yours, he tries his, and all of a sudden *gasp* its an actual fight.




The anti-grappling is all about playing your game as a WT guy- striking and escaping, escaping and striking, trying to make your escapes and counters offensive in nature while controlling position (linking attack and defense, as it were).

You're picking the wrong time to attack- unfortunately, there ARE positions that exist in a fight where your best option is to defend. To keep attempting to attack in these positions is futile and a waste of time. For example, attempting to strike your way out of a double underhooks clinch is going to end up with you getting thrown to the ground with alot of force. Someone who attemps to distance their hips, overhook the arms, or swim inside for an underhook of his own will have a much better chance of surviving and eventually breaking the clinch in order to keep the fight on the feet. Striking in proximity that close is not very usefull.



If someone tries to take you down 'cos you're a better striker and they're a grappler, that's probably not the guy you want to grapple with- he just proved that he's possibly a better grappler than you by taking you down. Ergo, mess up his plans, escape, and beat on him. This is the same basic strategy that high level strikers have been very succesful with in MMA (Louiseau, Vovchenchyn, Cro-Cop, Liddell, and the original proof, Mo Smith).

"Just escape" thats it? Thats the answer the martial arts world has been looking for. Hey, how do I beat Mirko Cro Cop "just knock him out" right? The problem these sad individuals have is that they dont realize that there arent any more one dimensional fighters anymore in MMA. The strikers that he mentioned have had extensive grappling training and USE that grappling training to regain their feet. When I see Igor,Liddell, or Cro Cop get back to their feet, I see them using grappling to defeat grappling- I do not see them doing any "anti-grappling" bullshit.