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Tarendol
12/09/2005 5:36pm,
There are a lot of gun experts around this forum, so I was hoping to get some advice. I am a complete newb to guns, but I am trying to rectify that situation but can't figure out what to buy. Following the advice of pretty much everyone I got a .22 pistol (Ruger Mk. III 22/45 Target) and a .22 rifle (CZ 452 Trainer,) which will serve me well for training and plinking, but I want to get some bigger caliber guns for fun and defense. I am eventually going to get something like a .30-06 bolt action, but right now I am looking at an AR-15. I am sure I will eventually get an AK too.

My big question is about a pistol. The whole "caliber war" thing is really messing me up, I have no idea what I should get. I was thinking about a 9mm Glock 19, but I constantly hear how crappy the 9mm round is. I can handle a .45, but the ammo is more expensive.... how much of a difference does it really make? Am I being too anal retentive here? I definitely don't want to start a caliber debate; I am just looking for some help for someone new into guns (it is surprisingly difficult to start if you haven't been into guns all your life!)

Phrost
12/09/2005 6:08pm,
It depends on what you want to use the firearm for... plinking? Home defense? Concealed carry?

9mm is generally considered the smallest round you can effectively use to put someone down. But if you're just going to shoot targets, even .17 is fine. The larger the caliber, the more stopping power. So if you're worried about getting attacked by a bear... go for a .50 cal.

But I don't consider myself an expert compared to some of the people here, so give them a chance to chime in.

Japuma630
12/09/2005 6:13pm,
I started a very close thread to this one a while back... there is some good info on here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28859

Yrkoon9
12/09/2005 6:26pm,
Forget this archaic technology.

GET A LASER GUN! PEW PEW PEW PEW!!!!

BenwaMandelbrot
12/09/2005 6:37pm,
Laser guns sound kind of girly. Maybe it is you who sounds girly.

kepetri
12/09/2005 6:39pm,
It depends on what you want to use the firearm for... plinking? Home defense? Concealed carry?

9mm is generally considered the smallest round you can effectively use to put someone down. But if you're just going to shoot targets, even .17 is fine. The larger the caliber, the more stopping power. So if you're worried about getting attacked by a bear... go for a .50 cal.

But I don't consider myself an expert compared to some of the people here, so give them a chance to chime in.

Damn, I thought you were screwing with us with the .17, but Google to the rescue:

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_96-17M.htm

Why would you ever need something like that when .22 bullets grow on trees?

Tarendol
12/10/2005 11:11am,
Sorry guys, I did a search but I missed that rather obvious thread. Just in case it still matters, I want my next gun to be for defense and possible CCW, which is why I am torn about 9mm. You can carry a lot of 9mm, plus it is cheap so I could practice more than with a .45. But the .45 has more power! I'm sure this won't be my last handgun anyway, so I guess the best plan would be to get both a 9mm and a .45, and then just use whichever one I feel most comfortable with. I just have to decide which one to get first!

Nid
12/10/2005 11:50am,
Power....pff.

Handguns are defensive instruments.

Deer manage to run after getting hit with shotgun slugs and rifle rounds.

In the grand scheme of things there isn't a huge difference between 9mm and .45 in terms of "power"; the "one-shot-stopping" variety, that is.

The killing ability...that's a different matter. I'm of the opinion that if someone is worth shooting, they are worth killing. 9mm has shown it's weaknesses, but nobody ever bitches about .45 ACP, 10mm .

9mm may expand. .45 never shrinks. Big holes are better. They may not pith someone, but all else being equal, more tissue is displaced, and more blood squirts out between perforation and treatment. Who wants them to live and give an alternate story and sue? Not me.

-Shooting as a hobby is never going to be cheap, but 9mm is less expensive.
-The recoil difference isn't day and night, but 9mm has a bit less.

If you have your heart set on both, get 9mm first.

Southpaw
12/10/2005 11:56am,
Sorry guys, I did a search but I missed that rather obvious thread. Just in case it still matters, I want my next gun to be for defense and possible CCW, which is why I am torn about 9mm. You can carry a lot of 9mm, plus it is cheap so I could practice more than with a .45. But the .45 has more power! I'm sure this won't be my last handgun anyway, so I guess the best plan would be to get both a 9mm and a .45, and then just use whichever one I feel most comfortable with. I just have to decide which one to get first!

Get a .40

Glock 23

5FingazofDeath
12/10/2005 1:09pm,
Get a .40

Glock 23


I had that gun......sniff :(

Phoenix
12/10/2005 1:27pm,
Get a .40

Glock 23

Glock 22 is better :eusa_snoo

Neildo
12/10/2005 4:17pm,
Damn, I thought you were screwing with us with the .17...

I didn't know they made regular ammo that small. I thought .22 was the smallest.

I've had compressed CO2 guns that fired .177 that was pretty damn accurate.
Also had one that fired .22 BB's. Damn, those went through damn near everything.

I miss those things. They were the most dangerous toys i ever had. hehehe.

hapkido_keith
12/11/2005 1:23am,
I'd say go with the 9mm. Ammo is cheap so you'll shoot it more, making you a better shot. Small caliber good shot beats large caliber bad shot.

SFGOON
12/12/2005 12:17am,
I have to reccomend the Glock 23 model. Not only is the .40 a well balanced, powerful and fast round, but the casings for the .357 and .40 are interchangeable (.357 is bottlenecked down from a .40) This means that by simply swapping out the barrel, you can quickly change the caliber of your pistol. The .357 is one of the best rounds available, it's high muzzle velocity lends it unique properties when it tears into the fleshy groin of a would be thug, namely fragmentation and a degree of hyrostatic shock.

It's like Samuel Colt said, "Speed and power are fine, but accuracy is final."

docsprague
12/12/2005 8:29am,
I would recommend the Glock 23 as well, that is what I carry concealed. Who ever said the Glock 22 is better must not be thinking of CCW or must be very big person. Sometimes I even wonder if I should have went with the Glock 27 for concealed purposes. For a duty weapon or home defense a Glock 22 is great.

On the other hand if you like the price of 9mm ammo don't be afraid of it not putting someone down. Just remember to get a good hollowpoint that is extremely fast, I.E. +P+. Just don't use those rounds for plinking. They will destroy your gun if you use them all the time, and they are kind of expensive. The good thing is you don't have to replace them unless you shoot someone or when they get old, new box once a year.

Jaguar Wong
12/12/2005 5:59pm,
...or when they get old, new box once a year.

seriously? You mean if you don't use ammo often enough you have to replace it that often? I didn't know that.