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Te(V)plar
12/03/2005 8:14pm,
How much bullshido can you find on Wiki?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_chun

So far, this has some sections that made me cringe.

CanucKyokushin
12/03/2005 9:04pm,
For those of us smart enough not to half wasted their lives doing CMA's to begin with;What parts other than the assasination paragrah is bs?

Psycho Dad
12/03/2005 9:24pm,
"Strictly speaking, there are no blocks in Wing Chun because they are believed to be inefficient. It is better to deflect the force (as opposed to meeting it head-on) and counter-attack at the same time."

"Feints are discouraged as these are seen as opening up your body to attack, with no possibility of hitting your opponent in return."

"Wing Chun's reputation as a style suitable for smaller sized people arises partly from the advantages close range fighting gives to the smaller person.At close range, a smaller person will still be able to develop full power in punches and kicks, as long as there is sufficient space to fully extend his limbs."

meng_mao
12/03/2005 9:34pm,
"Strictly speaking, there are no blocks in Wing Chun because they are believed to be inefficient. It is better to deflect the force (as opposed to meeting it head-on) and counter-attack at the same time."

"Feints are discouraged as these are seen as opening up your body to attack, with no possibility of hitting your opponent in return."

"Wing Chun's reputation as a style suitable for smaller sized people arises partly from the advantages close range fighting gives to the smaller person.At close range, a smaller person will still be able to develop full power in punches and kicks, as long as there is sufficient space to fully extend his limbs."
What style is that in your avatar?

WC sucks...rabble rabble...

missile
12/03/2005 9:35pm,
How much bullshido can you find on Wiki?

Sadly, far too much. The wing chun article that you cite used to be worse if memory serves. It still isn't NPOV (neutral point of view) to the official wikipedia standard though. People reading that article would have no idea that a significant portion of the martial arts community might have some criticisms for wing chun. Or, for that matter, that in some applications, e.g. ground fighting, wing chun might have some deficiencies.

Mind you, I'm willing to bet that some other pages there are much worse. And if we don't start editing more aggressively, and in greater numbers, it'll stay that way.

TehDeadlyDimMak
12/03/2005 10:14pm,
I'm surprised Wikipedia's Wing Chun article is so... warped.

Especially when it has a ton of pretty accurate MMAers editing about UFC and Pride all the time.

Mayhem
12/03/2005 10:17pm,
Well at least it's all proceeded by this:


This article might not be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia entry.
Please edit it to be more formal, or discuss changes on the talk page.
See Wikipedia's guide to writing better articles for suggestions.


This article contains information that has not been verified and thus might not be reliable. If you are familiar with the subject matter, please check the article for inaccuracies and modify as needed, citing sources.


This article does not make a clear distinction between fact and fiction.
Please edit it according to the guidelines regarding fiction.

Looks like Wikipedias standard discliamer for stuff that could possibly be made up.

Anyway in off to Wing Chun City! (see section 1.2.2).

Omar
12/03/2005 10:32pm,
That's nothing new. The Xing Yi section is just plain filled wle souith factual errors.

A couple years ago I was laughed at for scoffing at Wikipedia as a reliable source. I was told I was an idiot and behind the times yada yada yada....

Now this might go over some of your heads because it is a discussion of Xing Yi history but....

This discussion:

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=Xing;action=display;num=1131733058; start=0

In regards to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xingyiquan

The thread spins off topic by page 3 but my point is that Wikipedia is losing cfredibility these days. There was a link on the thread in there somewhere about the mechanics of how things get reviewed and about the conmplete anonynimity of the editors and lack of accountability. As a result, it is a pretty good on widely studied things where there is an academic consensus but for little niche hobbies like MA . . . good luck. It's just some shmoe with a magazine article.

Zid
12/03/2005 11:53pm,
What about this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyusho_jitsu


And then there's this excerpt from the "Lin Kuei" article:


Kombat Kontroversy

Origins, Speculations, and References

* There were certain groups and factions that may have existed in real life. The "Lin Kuei" or "Lin Gui" is a Mandarin Chinese term meaning "forest demons". Some martial arts historians and others researchers alike have speculated that such a group have existed in the forests of China many years ago before the ninja emerged in Japan and have tried to shed light on its true identity. It's believed that they were the forerunners and cousins of the Japanese ninja. Stories of Lin Kuei have haunted travelers and peasants for centuries because they were night-dwellers who were said to possess mystical powers. However most of its aspects began to die out since that they've lived to the very utmost secrecy.

* Some of its philosophies date back to the statements and issues of Sun Tzu's Art of War which outlined all aspects of warfare, including the use of "k'ai ho" (lierally "gap men" spies). According to Sun, " There is nowhere that you cannot put spies to good use".

* They were believed to be a dangerous cult that operated in China's forests looking for more able people to increase their ranks by capturing anyone who walks in their territory.

* There may have been very little evidence that proves their existence, however, since a book called Knights of Darkness by Dr. Haha Lung which discussed about the world's deadly night fighers and commandos mentioned the term Lin Kuei under the category Moshuh Nanren.

* The Moshuh Nanren were also Chinese assassins, commandos, spies and forerunners of the Japanese ninja who worked for the services of the Chinese emperors during the beginning of China's Warring States era ( 453-221 B.C.E). To help instill fear and fuel paranoia on their enemies they perpetuated the myth that they were descendants of the "lin kuei as mentioned above.

* Li-Hsing, a writer claiming to be a member of the Lin Kuei wrote two books " China's Ninja Connection" and " Combat Skills of the Lin Kuei: Heritage of the Ninja".

* Other groups used in the Mortal Kombat saga were also derived from reality such as the infamous The Black Dragon Society of Japan or Kokuryu-kai(Kano's Black Dragon clan), the rebellious White Lotus sect (The White Lotus society in which where Liu Kang and Kung Lao were a part of) who wanted to drive out foreigners from China during the "Westernization" era and the Shaolin Monks of the Honan Province.

thomaspaine
12/04/2005 2:13am,
You know the great thing about Wikipedia is, if you think you can improve the quality of the article then you can. So if any of you feel you have something to add to those articles then maybe you should do so instead of arguing about it on here.

meng_mao
12/04/2005 10:15am,
You know the great thing about Wikipedia is, if you think you can improve the quality of the article then you can. So if any of you feel you have something to add to those articles then maybe you should do so instead of arguing about it on here.
The problem still stands, that an expert and a deluded noob have the same editing capabilities, and that it's impossible to tell how much expertise/research went into an article. (other than meticulously examining the history and the editors' profiles)

PO9
12/04/2005 10:24am,
Wikipedia= idiots quoting agenda driven partisans.

Cullion
12/04/2005 10:43am,
For those of us smart enough not to half wasted their lives doing CMA's to begin with;What parts other than the assasination paragrah is bs?

Still sore about the whooping handed out on your hybrid thai/chinese/okinawan art by San Shou ? :qgreenjum

Xiangfei
12/04/2005 10:59am,
It just gives a general overview. If it was written bullshido style, therefore consisting of "it sucks, go do BJJ" it also wouldn't be neutral.

Judah Maccabee
12/04/2005 11:10am,
Wikipedia is an ambitious project, and any project or endeavor that's open to all the people has outcomes that can be idiotic.

Look at democracy. Do we think that democracy is idiotic because some people vote for utterly fucktarded things in their local area, or even in the country?

No, we praise democracy as the best possible institution for governance and bemoan fucktards who make it harder for the rest of us.

Wikipedia is still a fairly new concept, and they do have some content control going on. For example, the "SomethingAwful.com" page and others have been "protected" against vandalism and unable to be edited. I have a feeling that as superior content and research make their way into articles, they will be regarded as more serious than when giant sections get X'd out.

Not to mention that Wikipedia is a repository of information that I probably couldn't find elsewhere (easily). For example, look up the term "Internet Meme."

Phrost
12/04/2005 12:14pm,
How is our end of the Wiki project going Steve?