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fanatical
11/10/2005 5:14am,
Nothing came up in the search. May be just my rotten searching, but hey.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4359337870184708798&q=judo

So I'm posting this not because I'm calling bullshido on anyone. At worst, the people in the vid are McDojo victims, and this is definately not their territory they are working in.

However, I think this is a perfect example of how training shouldn't be. Through billions of posts people have discussed how things should be. But the examples of what to stay away from have seldom been demonstrated. Usually simply in a humorous manner. But just maybe someone can see this and recognize a lot of what's going on where they train. The overly complacent method of execution. The way people don't really know the technique, they are just imitating it and the uke falls on his own etc. Also, the choice of techniques are horrible. There are better ways to deal with those cliché attacks.

If your school concists mainly of these types of exercises. Please find another. For your own good.
(Keeping in mind that this is a demonstration I know.. But still..)

And what the **** is up with shouting "YES SIR!" after every damn sentence?

Rubberduck
11/10/2005 6:11am,
Looks like standard WTF TKD self-destru...self-abus...self-defense stuff, from what I remember when my cousin did it in 80´s. Now what WTF (in other sense) is judo doing in this? Some crappy takedown, and sucktastic "kote-gaeshi" wannabe, and that makes it judo?

Do they ever explain when and how these are supposed to be used? I mean, if someone just grabs your wrist, and you break his wrist and kick him, you are looking for assault charges. :zicon_ram

eyebeams
11/10/2005 6:31am,
Nothing came up in the search. May be just my rotten searching, but hey.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4359337870184708798&q=judo

So I'm posting this not because I'm calling bullshido on anyone. At worst, the people in the vid are McDojo victims, and this is definately not their territory they are working in.

However, I think this is a perfect example of how training shouldn't be. Through billions of posts people have discussed how things should be. But the examples of what to stay away from have seldom been demonstrated. Usually simply in a humorous manner. But just maybe someone can see this and recognize a lot of what's going on where they train. The overly complacent method of execution. The way people don't really know the technique, they are just imitating it and the uke falls on his own etc. Also, the choice of techniques are horrible. There are better ways to deal with those cliché attacks.

If your school concists mainly of these types of exercises. Please find another. For your own good.
(Keeping in mind that this is a demonstration I know.. But still..)

And what the **** is up with shouting "YES SIR!" after every damn sentence?

Oh for God's sake . . . the students are ranked White to Red and this is obviously their very first exposure to any sort of takedown at all. This sounds like kneejerk, "No t3h l1ve trning = suxx0r!" aimed at people who haven't even learned the "dead" version of each movement, which is nonsensical. You have to learn the static version first.

This is different from the actual value of the techniques. I thought the behind-the-back-wrist turn and "hair grab defense" were pretty wacky.

I aint punchy!?
11/10/2005 6:34am,
Really, really bad.

I hope they go into a judo competition with that. Whats with the hands behind throw thing... ridiculous!

kendamu
11/10/2005 6:53am,
I remember stuff sort of like that when I was studying TKD at my first gym. They called it Hapkido, though. I never really liked the techniques themselves but some of the principles behind the ones we studied (like how to pull off a good backfist) were a nice change of pace from the point-sparring techniques we drilled endlessly.

Thank God my instructor finally decided to stat teaching MT.

Leonidas
11/10/2005 6:57am,
that third throw...they go and turn their backs to throw them. Even a bonehead like me could see that that aint gonna cut it. While the technique is definitely questionable, eyebeams got it right in saying that perhaps they were simply learning the 'dead' movements before applying them in an alive situation. not probable, or even efficient, but whatever.

youre right though, it is a very good demonstration of what 'incorrect training method' seems to me. They only did each technique once ffs. (Unless its edited, but it didnt seem it)

fanatical
11/10/2005 7:00am,
Well I'm not the one who named the clip :P

There are two blackbelts in the second row who seem to know every movement. But there's still the moronic JUMPING back when you get "kneed to the face" as well as many other things. This is a rehearsed demonstration and they've gone through the motions before. It's clear from the blackbelts.

You seldom learn a completely dead way of doing anything. Usually you will have to exert some type of skill or effort to get a reaction. What they are doing is mimicing the moves and the uke is falling. This is moronic, as you are supposed to get some sort of effect from the techniques you are performing, no matter how stupid they are. But here, the effect is far from showing. What I'm saying isn't that they aren't allowed to learn techniques, but if you're going to throw or trip someone, you are going to have to throw or trip them. No matter how static the drill might be, there will be the effect of the uke being thrown. Here, they are moving, and people are falling of their own volition. It is a perfect example of how to manage to turn a move into as much suck as possible.

The hair grab defense if for me the best of the lot. The rest makes very little sense to me in regards to principles I've been taught in JJ otherwise.

FictionPimp
11/10/2005 7:22am,
I remember stuff sort of like that when I was studying TKD at my first gym. They called it Hapkido, though. I never really liked the techniques themselves but some of the principles behind the ones we studied (like how to pull off a good backfist) were a nice change of pace from the point-sparring techniques we drilled endlessly.

Thank God my instructor finally decided to stat teaching MT.


So your saying a poor hopkido/tkd instructor became a good MT instructor? I dont see why TKD couldn't be effective if it trained alive. I mean he could of added what he liked about MT training (i bet the sparing) to his TKD teaching. Did he think it was impossible to teach tkd and actually train alive? I'm not trying to bash him, i'm just curious. When I was in tkd, we had 2 types of sparing, point sparing (for the people who went to tourneys, and timed sparing (where contact levels were set by those sparing) I used to get a good whoopin now and then from some of the older guys but it really taught me a thing or two about my skill level. It was some of the best training I've had in my life. Too bad my instructor was killed in a car crash and the guy who took over became an ATA nut rider. When the timed sparing and the harder guys all left, I knew it was time to go.

Nii
11/10/2005 7:28am,
Phew. Mistaked the look of the background for my dojo for a second there.

kendamu
11/10/2005 7:41am,
So your saying a poor hopkido/tkd instructor became a good MT instructor? I dont see why TKD couldn't be effective if it trained alive. I mean he could of added what he liked about MT training (i bet the sparing) to his TKD teaching. Did he think it was impossible to teach tkd and actually train alive? I'm not trying to bash him, i'm just curious.

There was a kids class and a regular class for TKD and the regular class started with people 11 and up or something of that nature (I was 16 when I started TKD). When he started the MT classes he only wanted people 17+ who were serious about MT training. Personally, I did end up mixing TKD and MT together but at the time my instructor had something against doing that thinking that it would mess us up in TKD competition.

I never agreed with that logic but I wasn't the one running the classes. I just did what he said and mixed the two through experience later on after I left that gym.


When I was in tkd, we had 2 types of sparing, point sparing (for the people who went to tourneys, and timed sparing (where contact levels were set by those sparing) I used to get a good whoopin now and then from some of the older guys but it really taught me a thing or two about my skill level. It was some of the best training I've had in my life. Too bad my instructor was killed in a car crash and the guy who took over became an ATA nut rider. When the timed sparing and the harder guys all left, I knew it was time to go.

In the TKD classes we normally focused on point-sparring due to that whole age thing. I think it had more to do with liability issues with the gym we trained at since there were younger ones in there. Since the MT class was for older people we could take things a bit more seriously there.

eyebeams
11/10/2005 8:25am,
that third throw...they go and turn their backs to throw them. Even a bonehead like me could see that that aint gonna cut it.

You would never perform a hip or shoulder throw, then? Of any kind? I don't care for the "classical" version of that technique, but wrapping the arms, turning and throwing has worked OK for me. The "wrapping" part ends up being much more dynamic and instead of a full turn, you're normally unbalancing and throwing at an angle, but these are really refinements of a big, gorss technique.

As for the kind of training. I'd say that the problem is that it's trained in a line demo style instead of letting pairs take time to figure it out for themselves. Naturally, you're going to rush in a half-assed execution if you have to catch up while you learn.

broken fingers
11/10/2005 8:54am,
The instructor is asian and his do-bak says Korea on it so he must be T3H AW3S0M3!!

Multitask
11/10/2005 9:05am,
Sadly, I see certain individuals training like this during TKD sessions. It's one of the reasons I always try to pair up with someone I know will provide some resistance. Probably still not up to Bullshido standards, but not that pathetically passive. The instructor's sons and I go hard, to the point that we hurt one another, but I have to admit to taking it easy on others who do not seem comfortable striking/throwing beyond the mild level. Seeing this video and realizing I've taken it easy on some is embarassing, but I still have trouble hitting women/smaller guys with anything beyond light contact and power.

That said, I'm amazed to see blackbelts and instructors going so easy. We do not do the types of takedowns shown here. Most of our holds have striking counters, whether they be with elbows, knees, fists, etc. Taking the balance and leveraging for a takedown are stressed, so that you land in a control position when it hits the ground. I'm no BB, as I've only been at it for a couple of years, but the BBs I train with definitely go harder than this creampuff stuff.

Ronin
11/10/2005 9:26am,
AT my old TKD dojang there were about 6 people that sparred hard contact, all blue belt and above.
Not all the BB sparred hard, just me and two others ( not including the instructor(s) ).
Funny thing is, everyone watched when we sparred and always loved to see it, but very few wanted to do it.
" Not my cup of tea" and " that's not what I am here for", were typical statements.

lawdog
11/10/2005 10:05am,
Whoever called those techniques judo is clueless. One of the most important aspects of a judo throw or takedown is kuzushi (the off balancing). There is zero kuzushi there, thus it isn't even close to judo.

I've seen those lame takedowns in many different styles. It isn't so much the fact that the techniques suck because they aren't practiced against resisting opponents, it's more that they don't practice against resisting opponents, because the techniques don't work.

WhiteShark
11/10/2005 10:47am,
Those are typical dead training patterns just ask SBG.

But it's only a 2 minute clip so who knows what else they do. Maybe the next thing they do is Randori with just those three throws.