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Bullwhip
11/05/2005 4:00pm,
Nice day outside today.
I walk over to the dojo, it's closed. There is a note. "Walk, this way, "street name" and go to the enterance of the park. I drag my ass over there.
My "innovative" instructor decided to "street sparring" train us. That means that he placed a thick mat, about 20 by 20 feet on the ground. The ground is slanted.
We spend an hour and half sparring on that stuff.
My calves and my butt are getting sore.

After being pissed off for a while, I realized that it can be usefull.
If he warned us in advance, it could have been a good work out.

Peace. :adios:

JFS USA
11/05/2005 4:17pm,
Would have been better if he had left the mats out of it. I frequently hold class in a nearby park.

Torakaka
11/05/2005 4:21pm,
I spar out in parks now and then. It really makes a difference sparring on the hard ground rather than a soft mat. Makes it much more difficult to be light on your feet and such if you're not used to it.

Cullion
11/05/2005 4:25pm,
If he warned us in advance, it could have been a good work out.

Peace. :adios:

How would warning you in advance have made it a better workout ? I think he's pushing your limits better by taking you by surprise.

lawdog
11/05/2005 4:32pm,
But what was he trying to accomplish? Being that you were on mats, I'm not sure there would be any significant difference, except for the fact that you were on an incline, or sloped ground.

Honestly though, I'm not sure how bright it is to spar for 1.5 hours on an incline.

Did he mention what benefit you were supposed to gain from this?

Torakaka
11/05/2005 4:36pm,
learning to fight on the deadly streets of course!

JFS USA
11/05/2005 4:38pm,
I spar out in parks now and then. It really makes a difference sparring on the hard ground rather than a soft mat. Makes it much more difficult to be light on your feet and such if you're not used to it.

Looking good in the avatar, Kid.

The park is good ... sometimes have everyone meet in the parking lot of a nearby Middle School. Park their cars like in a Mall lot and work on things in between the parked cars.

Once in a while take everyone into the park woods on one of the nature trails and work out there.

From time to time put some chairs in the work-out area and toss a few golf balls on the floor. Just something that demands being factored in while under pressure.

I'm a big fan of sensory over-load in order to facilitate higher functioning in processing ability.

Lots of ways to do it and each way adds a little something to the mix by way of requiring adaption in some measure.

Over time I have found that "routine" = complacency ... and complacency kills. Break it up now and then to keep it fresh and interesting if not fun.

lawdog
11/05/2005 4:39pm,
Well, I guess if you carry a mat around with you all the time, that might be a valid reason.

Torakaka
11/05/2005 4:42pm,
Well, I guess if you carry a mat around with you all the time, that might be a valid reason.


you're telling me you don't?

Toby Christensen
11/05/2005 4:47pm,
Local park

JFS USA
11/05/2005 4:50pm,
Well, I guess if you carry a mat around with you all the time, that might be a valid reason.

The validity is to be found in the alteration of the environment ... not as a map on template.

lawdog
11/05/2005 4:52pm,
Looking good in the avatar, Kid.

The park is good ... sometimes have everyone meet in the parking lot of a nearby Middle School. Park their cars like in a Mall lot and work on things in between the parked cars.

Once in a while take everyone into the park woods on one of the nature trails and work out there.

From time to time put some chairs in the work-out area and toss a few golf balls on the floor. Just something that demands being factored in while under pressure.

I'm a big fan of sensory over-load in order to facilitate higher functioning in processing ability.

Lots of ways to do it and each way adds a little something to the mix by way of requiring adaption in some measure.

Over time I have found that "routine" = complacency ... and complacency kills. Break it up now and then to keep it fresh and interesting if not fun.
Thanks for that response. The sensory overload factor is one thing I thought of as being a difference, when practicing in a park. But, I don't think that simply practicing in a park is sufficient for that. Sure, it's a different environment than the 4 walls of the dojo, but I'm not sure how significant of a difference. I was wondering if that was one of the motivations though.

What you describe, JFS, makes a lot of sense and I see a great deal of value in that. Essentially creating or adding variables that the student is not used to, variables that need to be negotiated in some way, makes sense.

I think that on a nice day, practicing outside is great, and perhaps there is more benefit than I think from simply changing your surroundings.

What I wonder about though is if the instructor's motives were a change in surroundings, or to have them train on an incline, and if so, why. I also wonder how steep this incline was. I've never heard of training on an incline, and I can see some value in it, but not for 1.5 hrs. of sparring. I actually think that could be detrimental to one's training, especially for the newer students. Just curious about that.

Shrfu_Eric
11/05/2005 4:56pm,
If your instructor warned you ... what's the point. Street fighting training shouldn't need any warning nor should you use mats or be wearing a uniform or gear for that matter.

It's reality training ... you don't get any warning in streetfights. Training should be in street clothing with objects in the way (as John pointed out) with a crowd ... maybe you peers crowding around. No stretching, maybe include objects found in the street ..IE a brick or stick. Reality training should make a person aware of the surroundings, amonnst others. Maybe add in a sucker punch to the equation. That's some shock reality there.

Eric

Cullion
11/05/2005 5:04pm,
Sure, it's a different environment than the 4 walls of the dojo, but I'm not sure how significant of a difference.

Just getting used to doing your thing on uneven footing must be a useful component in making sure that your full-contact competition training can be applied in 'real' situations.

lawdog
11/05/2005 5:11pm,
Just getting used to doing your thing on uneven footing must be a useful component in making sure that your full-contact competition training can be applied in 'real' situations.
I agree with that, which is why I'm surprised they used mats.

Camus
11/05/2005 5:36pm,
I prefer to take my outdoor training while inebriated, I've found that it allows the practitioner a high level of focus due to the inability to feel the pain and discomfort caused by gravel or sidewalk or whatever else one finds one's self on. Submissions are also more likely to be over-applied, possibly resulting in injury, thus adding feelings of danger and urgency. Also, having such practice sessions at night, preferably after a great deal of celebration and in whatever clothes you happen to be wearing, futher adds to the 'real life' street effect.

The presence of narcotics is also recommended for spot training. Advanced stylists might also include hallucinogens to encourage a more 'internal' style of training. Your individual mileage may vary.