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Shinigami
11/01/2005 10:58pm,
I see lots of Tai Chi bashing going around, with only a few people trying to argue against it. I read one earlier about how Tai Chi uses chi to defend you.... which is not very true, and is not exactly the biggest help to the arguement.

Basically, here's my arguement. You don't know what Tai Chi is, so don't bash it.

That really looong, sloooow series of 88 movements you see a the YMCA and available on DVDs and stuff? Not Tai Chi. That series of movements is actually a pre-Tai Chi exercise designed to get your body used to certain movements and make you flexible, and it's supposed to be done fairly quickly too. Don't ask me why it's so damn slow, I blame the first McDojo rep who claimed it was an easy form of Yoga. Learning these 88 movements and claiming you know Tai Chi is like touching your toes and claiming you know Ju Jujitsu. You aren't going to win fights with this set of slow, even movements, not in a million years.

Actual Tai Chi is practiced a lot like a Karate kata, except involving a great deal of sidesweeping movements, spinning, stomping, and jabbing people in painful places. All of it is very fast and hard to follow if you haven't already done the moves slow-mo in the workout. This doesn't mean that just becaues it's gone from Yoga to Kata it's suddenly t3h styl3 of t3h g0dz0rz!!!!11! It's a martial art, like any other, and has problems like any other. There are some moves that are worth learning though.

I'm not asking you to rank this higher than any other flawed art, I'm just annoyed at all the people claming it's nothing more than yoga. It's not.

fanatical
11/01/2005 11:01pm,
What is this? Noob thread starter month?

meng_mao
11/01/2005 11:31pm,
If you read a few threads, you would see a lot of people giving Taichi major props for being effective, if trained alively.

So take this forum seriously, or leave.

Leonidas
11/01/2005 11:44pm,
on that note, why does every noob here have to make their virginal posts in defence of something? so far, no noobs Ive seen, myself included, have posted a good bullshido find, but they seem proficient in spamming anti tai chi bashing/WC/TKD threads. Can't you just go with the flow and accept their criticisms? Most of them are pretty valid.

Shinigami
11/01/2005 11:46pm,
I see 9 out of 10 of those threads shot down for some bullshit reason (or a completely valid reason, sadly enough) and there are 20 times as many threads as the supporting ones that bash on Tai Chi in some way. That's something I take seriously.

Leonidas
11/02/2005 12:00am,
So if you see that these 'valid' threads are being shut down for defending a style, etc, why are you posting here with another one? Surely you can see what kind of joint BS is, and that this kinda stuff doesnt go down well. IF youre really irritated about it, dont tell us, tell admin. Otherwise, stop making people hate you.

Z'dime
11/02/2005 12:02am,
Wait a minute. You say that the 88-form Yang Tai Chi which came from a direct student of the Chen family, the founders of actual Tai Chi Chuan, isn't real Tai Chi and that it is really like a kata.....

What McDojo did you buy into? Because that is really messed up.

Cassius
11/02/2005 12:09am,
AGHHH!

Look chief, plenty of people here feel Tai Chi is good stuff, as long as it is trained in an alive manner. When it is trained dead, it is just as worthless as any other dead martial art. Your post and this thread do nothing to further contribute to the already long archive of threads about tai chi. Lurk for awhile, then try again. STOP MAKING THREADS.

Who let all the goddamned chimps play on the computer today?

Shinigami
11/02/2005 1:23am,
Z'dimd - Origonally Tai Chi was invented after a monk (or somebody like that) witnessed a snake fighting with a crane, so the story goes. He invented a basic routine to emulate as best he could. The first form only had around 12 or so moves. I dunno, I just remember the form origonally included a lot of spinning and stamping, but was a hell of a lot shorter, until it was adapted into I believe Yang style by someone else.... I should find that site again...

Yeah, you practice a string of moves in a specific pattern. Isn't that a kata?

Shinigami
11/02/2005 1:27am,
garbanzobean - I agree with the "live mannor" thing. Then again, if you look at my other post "Chi" and check some of the edits, you can see some of the people there violently defend their view of Tai Chi as "movements and positions specifically done by the elderly to alleviate common ailments by training good posture, muscular strength and proper breathing."
kinda like yoga... which it isn't

Shinigami
11/02/2005 1:29am,
Leonidas - In other words, find some BS, even if I have to make it up a little? This is MA related, and it does very much so go against popular belief (i.e. yours). So? If I find proof that Bruce Lee's fighting style worked for crap and he bought out all his opponents, be sure I'll let you know. Until then, I'll post what I know.

fanatical
11/02/2005 1:30am,
To me, Kung fu is the least interesting family of martial arts. Sad but true.

But even I still know the legend of Boddidharma that is the mythical birth of Shaolin Kung fu. (Or all martial arts, depending on what crackpot tells the story) But that rendition of history is complete and utter bullshit.

Yang style Tai chi has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. I'm sure there must be some mentioning of the history of Tai chi in the History section of this forum. You should take a look.

Shinigami
11/02/2005 1:54am,
fanatical - agreed... I found one site but then again that doesn't mean it's true... I'll hunt around for the most accepted story and go with that

Matt Stone
11/02/2005 4:40am,
Z'dimd - Origonally Tai Chi was invented after a monk (or somebody like that) witnessed a snake fighting with a crane, so the story goes. He invented a basic routine to emulate as best he could. The first form only had around 12 or so moves. I dunno, I just remember the form origonally included a lot of spinning and stamping, but was a hell of a lot shorter, until it was adapted into I believe Yang style by someone else.... I should find that site again...

Yeah, you practice a string of moves in a specific pattern. Isn't that a kata?

The simple fact that you believe the story of Chang San-feng (not a monk, but a reclusive ascetic Taoist reputed to be immortal, the legendary founder of Taijiquan but acknowledge to most likely not be the true founder) as the origin of Taijiquan seriously calls into question your understanding of what Taiji is and isn't...

Chen is the only variant of Taiji that is practiced with quick movements in the forms. The slow movements in the other variants are in place in order to develop specific body coordinations; the fighting techniques aren't used that way (negating your reference to yoga and exercise).

Gotta love people that think they are the sole living repositories of knowledge... They apparently don't know they aren't. They can't be. That's my job.

:toothy10:

Cullion
11/02/2005 5:25am,
In the type of Taichi I do, the hand form is done slowly. Speeding it up wouldn't suddenly turn Taichi into a martial art, and doing it slowly has it's own benefits.

Techniques are done fast in padwork, drills, and of course, sparring. I don't know them yet, but from what I read the sabre and the spear forms are also done fast.

The old snake and crane story you've got confused about is one sometimes used about Wing Chun, because it has lots of short range versions of techniques you see in White Crane, and some hand movements reminiscent of the way a snake moves.

You don't need to defend Taichi. Everybody loves it and they are just waiting their turn for me to tell them where a reputable school near them is so they can take it up.

Rubberduck
11/02/2005 5:29am,
The simple fact that you believe the story of Chang San-feng (not a monk, but a reclusive ascetic Taoist reputed to be immortal, the legendary founder of Taijiquan but acknowledge to most likely not be the true founder) as the origin of Taijiquan seriously calls into question your understanding of what Taiji is and isn't...

Chen is the only variant of Taiji that is practiced with quick movements in the forms. The slow movements in the other variants are in place in order to develop specific body coordinations; the fighting techniques aren't used that way (negating your reference to yoga and exercise).

Gotta love people that think they are the sole living repositories of knowledge... They apparently don't know they aren't. They can't be. That's my job.

:toothy10:

Tung-family system has also fast form, and even san shou is listed in curriculum. But where I trained, most of the practicioners were older women, and not overly keen on san shou. And neither was sifu. :new_Llol: